Talk:A Tale of Two Hashes achievement

This is a proposal made on 2009-04-22. Please leave comments and suggestions below, indicating your thoughts on the proposal, including:

• Support - you think this proposal should be added with zero or minor changes
• Do not oppose - you think it's boring/meh/not for you, but it wouldn't harm to have it created
• Oppose - you have a specific reason as to why this ribbon should not exist (state this reasoning in your comment)
• Needs work - you think the achievement should be created after more significant changes have been made

See Proposed achievements for more information on this process.

Possible Future Achievement

Hi! I'm wmcduff from the Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada graticule. If I ever get off my rear end and do a hash, and you do one on the same day, we should totally both get a gratuitous ribbon for that. (Tale of Two Cities Achievement!) - 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Sound like a good idea :). Due to the whole date issue though, it might be hard finding a day where we can both reach the hash point. I'll attempt anything nearby, and I'll keep watching your userpage. Ephphatha 14:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you're ahead of me temporally speaking. Though send an alert my way if you get a Bathurst, Austrailia hash done, and I'll do my darndest to match the effort on this side of the globe! :) - Wmcduff 16:29, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I like what I suspect is your achievement proposal. I assume it is for people in two or more graticules to reach geohashes within the legal boundaries of different cities with the same name (spelling counts?) on the same day? -Robyn 16:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Mmm, that would be a good achievement! I was just thinking graticules with the same city name (Bathurst; Portland, OR & Portland, ME.) but your idea would be very neat. Special notice if both are done by one person of course. (Say, Vancouver, BC and Vancouver, WA, if that's even possible... :D) - Wmcduff 17:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I like this idea. There's also two Edmontons (Alberta, Canada; Kentucky, USA). --Meghan 17:50, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh wait, my way makes it harder for the coordinates to work ... oh almost impossible, really, because unless the cities were really large, in the same centicule (or across the 30W line) they would never match. Maybe there's some way to do it, with the geohashers having to pass through the identically named city on the way to their geohash. It needs to be extended to more than just identically named graticules, though, or else it's unfair to people in places like Uchasumaku Pikwayipanan, Québec (not that there's anyone there, but you know what I mean). I really like the idea of a cooperative achievement that has to work across graticules, kind of like the hashcard. Maybe one person does a geohash in a city/town/region/graticule then sends a challenge to a person who is near an identially named one and when the recipent of the challenge gets a geohash there, both parties get the ribbon. Or you could do it yourself by getting two different places on different dates yourself. The "both on the same day" aspect could then be a bonus, for people with the same graticule name, or really lucky coordinates. Gee, we should make a proposal page for this. -Robyn 18:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. A Tale of Two Hashes achievement for meeting the challenge of a geohasher and hashing a similarly named city within a week, bonus points for a) doing it on the same day or b) doing it yourself. Slightly lesser kudos for doing this in similarly named graiticules. What do people think?- Wmcduff 18:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I like this one. and in fact the idea of having a number of cooperative achievements is good. mykaDragonBlue [- i have no sig -] 03:09, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Time Periods

Seven days may seem reasonable, but bear in mind that Vancouver is among the largest cities in Canada and the geohash hasn't fallen within Vancouver city limits for 75 days. Also many geohashers only go out every couple of weeks or so. I think the short time period is too restrictive, and any time period might be. What about the case where you have done a geohash in Paris, Texas, and then a year later a geohasher becomes active in Paris, France. I think you should then be able to challenge them. I agree that it shouldn't be applicable to people who discover "oh look in the past I did London, England and you did London, Ontario - we can get an achievement," however. -Robyn 05:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Mmm. I was thinking unlimited for smaller than grat, and seven days for a full grat (I mean, surely one doable hash in a week is reasonable, no?) but, thinking about it, since we don't have any other co-op achievements yet, it makes it more difficult unnecessarily. So OK, no time limits on when the second hash must be done.

However, I think the challenge aspect should be made when you're reporting the hash because you can challenge someone nearby, which gets people out of their grat on occasion. (Perhaps as part of the write up? Could we have a challenge ribbon?) Silly challanges (like asking you to geohash Darwin, Australia) can always be declined, after all. So, challenges made on a successful hash, ribbon received when the other party does their part? - Wmcduff 14:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

One doable hash in a week may not coincide with the one available day some people have for geohashing. Especially in the graticules which aren't covered by road networks. I'd support no time restriction, but also no retroactive discovery: the second hash should be done after the challenge is issued and accepted. -- Rhonda 16:06, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Naming Conventions

Name will be changed to A tale of two hashes achievement to comply with Naming conventions.

Can we have A Tale of Two Hashes achievement due to it being a joke off a literary title? -Wmcduff 20:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd do it your way, but I tell you the Naming convention mavens are vicious. They want to rename the Main page! -Robyn 21:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Ribbon images

I suggest using [1], [2] or the imagery from [3] for the ribbon image :D --Meghan 22:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I like #2 the best, personally. It looks very Dickensian. :) - Wmcduff 22:29, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Challenging

As I understand it just now, it is the one who does the first expedition who should challenge someone else to do a matching one? I don't think that is actually feasible. On a graticule level, there are only a small number of possible pairings, which takes almost the whole world out of this challenge. On a lower-than-graticule (or let's say, lower-than-megapolis) level noone can really accept a challenge to geohash a specific place, as you never know when the coordinates may get there; also noone will issue all possible challenges around the world. As a result, most challenges will either be on a megapolis level or turned down, while the more interesting possible pairings will never be challenged. So, although I really like the idea of matching pairs, I oppose the achievement as it is now.

I would support an achievement that works the other way round, i.e. you find a past or same day expedition which matches yours, no matter whether the one who did that even knew about your place. This would give an additional incentive to go on an expedition you probably would skip otherwise. --Ekorren 15:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you drastically underestimate the number of pairings, Ekorren. For your hash, I can find two other Stuttgarts [4], three Ulms [5], and half a dozen Weilheims in Germany [6] with a quick scan. I've also encouraged stretching, so there's nothing preventing you from making a challenge based off the street, train station, or name of the farm you end up geohashing on. It seems a more difficult challenge than it is, I think. Some might take a while, but that's part of the fun, isn't it? - Wmcduff 15:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I do not underestimate the number of pairings, I just did a reality check on the fact that you need to challenge someone else, and the probability that an actual pairing will result in a successful achievement.

If a hash falls into "my" Weilheim, which is a chance of about once in four years, and I hash there, I would still need to find another hasher near another Weilheim, which might have a similar chance, and who is willing to neglect the life he has only to hash there when available. To get a pairing done, I could just issue hundreds of challenges and go on everyones nerve with that, but it wouldn't really help. Myself, I couldn't do much for it, because in each case I see a pairing I could fulfil, I most probably haven't got the challenge. And that's the point I make: How cool would it be if a hash would fall into München be Bad Berka, a small village in Thuringia which happens to have the same name as the third largest city in Germany, and someone went there to pair it with the Munich everyone knows? But how dumb would it be to challenge each and every hasher who might come to Thuringia or not during the next century to hash in a village, where the hash might fall once in ten years? And how dumb would it be if someone has the chance to hash in München bei Bad Berka but this does not count only because this hasher did not get challenged before to do that by someone who did the other half?

I know that my proposal would turn the achievement totally around, which is why I said "oppose" and not "needs work" in the former post. --Ekorren 15:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem with the reverse is that it becomes less of a geohashing achievement and more of a research achievement. (Has someone done this versus go do this, if your see what I mean). I think it has to be a challenge, but it could possibly be more open, so that rather than a specific person doing it, there could be a list of open challenges on the achievement page. You claim a challenge, do it, and get the ribbon. Would this be more acceptable? So after doing Wilheim, Stuttgart, you could post an open challenge to one of the other Weilhiems. Might sit for a while, admittedly, but it's another reason to look at different hashes! - Wmcduff 16:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)