Talk:Palestine

Dispute

So it comes to this. Like everything called Palestine this page is under dispute.

On one side: If there is a state of Palestine it does not nor has ever had, have any control over any places that have had successful documented geohash expeditions. In the Territory of Judea and Samaria there has only been up until now one geohasher: Yosef (talk) 10:13, 15 August 2018 (UTC). Yosef will not call these areas Palestine because of the previous sentence.

On the other side: Some people really want to trust Palestinians.

Yosef (talk) 10:13, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Independently of the issue, I think it's a bit childish to make a proposal (which should be made on the Discussion page, anyway) and 35 minutes later editing it so it becomes a definition without any other geohasher's input. Please, think your edits before doing them and discuss them. I won't undo your last edits, but I hope you do so we can reach any kind of agreement on the topic before changing the page. Gormaz (talk) 11:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I was waiting to see how the discussion developed before saying anything more, but Yosef has asked me to weight in.

I don't know much about the issue, but it seems that most of the world recognizes the State of Palestine (except, mostly, NATO members and, obviously, Israel [1]) and in regards to the UN it's a non-member observant state, that is, a state. Therefore, it sure makes sense to have a page for it in the wiki.

Regarding what should be considered Palestine, it seems that the State of Palestine and all the countries that recognize it consider Palestine to be the whole West Bank and Gaza, if I'm not mistaken.

Lastly, I don't think not having controlled over some territory is enough reason not to consider that territory part of the country. Gormaz (talk) 14:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

"So it comes to this." - Do not make this more dramatic than it is, please. Nobody is taking anything away from you or from Israel.

The purpose of this page is to help geohashers to keep track of the regional geohashing achievement. You are pretty close to achieving this one, it seems, but the last graticule 32,34 is going to be tricky. If you achieve this, I really do not care if you call it Palestine or Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

The page name however stays Palestine since that is what the world calls it. I know that as an Israeli citizen, you feel like you have to protest this, but keep in mind that this is not the United Nations. Unlike governments, categories for graticule pages can coexist, and so can the wiki pages Israel and Palestine. Crimea's graticules are in Category:Ukraine and Category:Russia. Kosovo's graticules are in Category:Kosovo and Category:Serbia. Palestine's graticules are in Category:Israel and Category:Palestine.

And yes, you were geohashing on land that Israel controls and Palestine claims. At File:Screenshot 2018-07-10-19-27-14.png, you are literally standing just west of the Green Line. Congradulations, you made progress on your regional geohashing achievement for both Israel and Palestine.

I am going to restore the old version of the page. Please do not undo this unless you have the support of the majority. If you really really need to, add a comment to the page along the lines of "Israeli geohashers living in this area, such as Yosef, do not recognize this area as Palestine, but as the Israeli district of Judea and Samaria" --Fippe (talk) 15:19, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for weighing in on this Fippe, I likewise agree that it is not the place of Geohashing to support one worldview on the territorial status of a location or the other —I think putting disputed locations in both categories is the best solution to this problem and represents the best non-commital middle-ground approach to what could otherwise be a cause of great division among our already tiny community. Thank you also for explaining the purpose of these pages within the context of Geohashing —i.e. the Regional hash achievement. Geohashing should I think be a non-partisan and inclusive sport and as such we should not look to hold our community to an official opinion on the status of any disputed territory, be it Palestine, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus, Crimea or anywhere else, so I support the status quo of this page as I feel this serves our community best. Saxbophone (talk) 17:52, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Understood Saxbophone. However if you are doing anything geohashing related in the West Bank, you will either do it through an Israeli channel in Area C or a Palestinian channel in Areas A and B. That means that if you are going to call anything Palestine, you can call Areas A and B because that is what was set out by the Oslo Accords. Area C has been defined by the Oslo Accords as Israel. That is actually a non-partisan approach. I can dispute Jordan and call it the "State of Ruben and Gad," but the true ruler is the King of Jordan. Again my approach is based on who runs the institutions in that location in practice, not just political. Yosef (talk) 20:10, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

A Short Timeline of the Disputed Territories

1517: Ottoman Empire Rule

1918: British Empire Rule

1948: Jordanian Rule

1967: Israeli Rule

1994: Area A: Palestinian; Area B: Joint; Area C: Israeli;

Please note that Area C has never been under the rule of any entity that could be considered a modern State of Palestine.

Yosef (talk) 10:47, 15 August 2018 (UTC)