Talk:Midnight Geohash

Resolve unclear and self-contradictory timing rules

I'd like to restart the discussion so we get to some point soon.

Taking a closer look, the rules are self-contradictory. Currently it says:

• First midnight after announcement
• First night after announcement
• 0:00 east of W30, 24:00 west of W30 (for those of us not used to well-defined 24 hour times: 0:00 is the beginning of a day, 24:00 is the end).

There are some issues with that definition:

• On weekends, the first midnight after announcement is 0:00 also west of W30, which would mean that there are different times to go there depending on the day.
• In the very east - like, Australia and New Zealand - the coordinates are announced around midnight, making it impossible to go at 0:00.
• It's not really logical to have two places for a midnight hash in the night between friday and saturday, and none in the night between sunday and monday. But that's what the "first midnight" rule results in.

To resolve those issues, I see two possible solutions:

• Just make it midnight, no matter whether at the beginning or the end of the day. Remove all other requirements. Going at the first available midnight is encouraged, but not obligatory. Easy and understandable.

• Keep the requirement that there is only one specific midnight allowed for each place and day, but resolve the self-contradiction in the rules, and make it possible for everyone. This could result in a ruleset as follows:

• 24:00 on all days for W30 to W180
• 0:00 on all days for W30 to E90 (border debatable)
• 24:00 on all days for E90 to E180

The third group is needed because of the fact that in the very east announcement of coordinates happens too short before or even past midnight. At E90 the coordinates are announced around 20:30, still leaving a realistic chance to start on the same evening. This border may be debatable, though, and is a bit problematic anyway. While it might be usually impossible to visit a hashpoint e.g. 90 minutes past announcement, so you need to allow to go there after 25½ hours, it would be a bit sad to forbid going within 90 minutes in case it actually is possible.

--Ekorren 22:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Reworked --Ekorren 11:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. At the moment it seems to imply I should do my sunday hash on friday night. :| Juventas 22:44, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Why not change the rules to just "in the middle of the night" so that the hasher can freely choose whether he/she wants to be at the hashpoint at either 0:00 or 23:59? I don't see a reason why we should limit the options at all. --Ilpadre 07:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm with Ilpadre here. The timing on when the coordinates become available is so variable from time zone to time zone that whatever the intention of the original proposal was, it is lost in translation. I think if you're at the coordinates at midnight, whether that is the very beginning or the very end of the appropriate day, you have succeeded. Perhaps the original intention WAS to put time pressure on the geohash. if we were to create an achievement for reaching the geohash in a minimum time after the announcement, what should the requirement be? One hour? Two? Half an hour? -Robyn 07:30, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I always understood it to be the first midnight on the day in question after announcement of the coordinates. (meaning that I have got a "wrong midnight" geohash in my collection.) But to remove such constraints is fine with me. I also like Robyn's idea for a new achievement. The problem(?) is that it might require you to visit the coordinates for a given day on the day before that day. - Lyx 12:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Myself I had understood the intention not only to give some time pressure, but also make it a specific midnight so that there is only one midnight per day. This to make it a bit more fair to those time zones where the coordinates are announced after midnight of the same day. But anyway, most achievements aren't globally fair anyway. Giving up any rule about which midnight to use would probably be the easiest solution. Relet: As the original creator of the achievement, do you have any thoughts?

About the proposed fast geohash - sounds like an idea, but like Lyx I also see the problem that this often (i.e. always in Europe, everywhere on weekends) means to get to the coordinates before the day they are valid, and go there again on the right day to make it a successful expedition. Also people who work on weekdays will never have a chance to do it. --Ekorren 15:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I concede your point about the fast geohash Ekorren. I hadn't taken in the fact that Europeans always got their geohashes the day before. No wonder those Germans are getting so many! -Robyn 18:43, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to bring that up again, to finally get to a conclusion. Myself, I would now prefer the small and simple ruleset: Just midnight, no further requirements. Encourage to go for 0:00 if possible. I appreciate the original thought to make it a bit more fair by only allowing one specific midnight and challenging by that being the first one of the day, but the original creators really didn't think that through for each part of the world. I think any ruleset that keeps those thoughts makes it overly complicated, though, while not really adding much to the experience. --Ekorren 11:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

New date, previous opening value?

I know none of the tools support this, but it's there in the original comic - you use the current date, and the previous day's DJIA opening value. PhilHibbs 12:12, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you wanted to tell us with that statement. Anyway, using the previous day's DJIA is correct only on saturdays, dow holidays, and on weekdays east of W30. In those cases all of the good tools do support it. In any other case, this does not yank a valid hash. --Ekorren 12:17, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

My interpretation of the original comic was that if you want to geohash in the wee small hours before the NYSE opens, you use yesterday's opening value. PhilHibbs 13:23, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

No, you don't. You just wait for the opening. There is one hash for each day, and it's only valid on that day. --Ekorren 13:26, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

OK I'm a hashnoob, still learning the conventions. PhilHibbs 14:09, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

No worries, we were all new at one time, usually in the recent past. As a geohasher on the US east coast, I am well aware of the pains of the "late" opening of the DOW, but each place has their quirks, and provides their own unique challenges. --aperfectring 15:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)