Talk:Travelling hashman achievement

I suggest to move this to Traveling hashman achievement. And create a redirect from Travelling hashman achievement, or the other way around. -- relet

done -- Xore 21:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. Reaching seven hash points seems pretty massive to me. It's an interesting feat, but I wouldn't create the achievement before anyone actually attempted it. -- relet 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It's something truly notable to achieve. I doubt anyone in vancouver will be able to pull it off, due to severe geographical constraints, but I think some ambitious germans or even atlantans could pull it off... -- Xore 21:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

My first few thoughts:

Hardly achievable, as the chance that all seven points are reachable is almost zero in most graticules.
Contradicts the spirit of going on the actual day, as it means to skip six possible days of valid coordinates just to have a small chance at the end of the week, which then still may turn out being void. Each expedition skipped for that is a loss to true geohashing.
Only possible by burning a lot of fuel on a car. Simply impossible with any other kind of transport.

=> Oppose. --Ekorren 21:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It's cute, through the reference to the problem, but I oppose creating an extremely difficult retrohash achievement just to be cute. I haven't seen anyone suffering because it's too easy to get to their Saturday geohash point and so they need another six random locations to go to. Is the person allowed to choose any week in the past? If it's to be done on the Saturday for the past seven days then it's just a cheat for the Endurance geohashing achievement, taking all the spontaneity out of hoping that the next day will be attainable. Also if the Saturday is attainable, the person should be going to that at 4, and planning six other hashpoints makes it less likely that they will be at the meetup point at the right place. Can you do something with the travelling salesman problem that doesn't involve retros? Maybe just the Friday, Saturday, Sunday points? But even then the person either has to go back to get the right ones on the right days or sacrifice actually getting hashpoints on their days. So I don't like that either. And the Atlanteans aren't going to do it unless they are going to deliberately not visit any point for a week! I don't see that this encourages more meetings, more interesting adventures or more geohashing by people who wouldn't otherwise go. -Robyn 22:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, relet, do Germans use American English spellings by definition? Did their sector of the occupation leave a stronger legacy than the British one? -Robyn 22:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Though the title made me chuckle, only one person ever has gotten 7 or more hashpoints in one day, and that was with some pretty optimal conditions. It also emphasizes retrohashing over actual hashing. While we do allow retrohashing, it has become our position that retro hashes aren't really in the spirit of things, and shouldn't really have specific achievements for them. --aperfectring 22:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you all seem to have completely missed the point here. :S The point of this achievement is -not- about retrohashing. It's about saying "I am a geek, and i have physically travelled the travelling salesman problem"... The same way we are all saying "I am a geek, and have physically travelled to a point generated by md5". The retrohashes merely provides a convenient set of points to base the problem off of. This is not meant to preclude people from geohashing during the week: that was merely an added difficulty factor. Would it be possible to get suggestions for improvements rather than straight opposition? I'd really like to see this idea fly. -- Xore 22:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Some points:

Not all achievements are possible in all graticules, this (proposed) achievement is unlikely to be possible even in my home graticule, but i don't see that as a reason to stop people from trying. Also, some probability exists that the points may fall relatively close to each other, these weeks won't happen with any frequency, but they present opportunities.
This would be only for the week that is currently ending, it wouldn't be for any arbitrary past week. (you wouldn't be able to go back and pick an easy one, although you can wait for an easy one if it comes up)
I don't have a car, and geohashing on weekdays is more often than not completely unviable for me if I also wish to eat, sleep, and go to work. Maybe that makes me less dedicated a geohasher than some, but I see this as an opportunity to gain an epic geohashing day, not as a loss of the days that i wouldn't have been able to make anyway.
One round trip visiting 7 hash points would burn less fuel than 7 separate expeditions-- This is inherent in the nature of the travelling salesman problem. I know some cyclists who would disagree that a car would be necessary for this.

Suggested changes

in no particular order. Feel free to discuss, or add to the list.

This achievement could be possible across multiple graticules. If the point for a day is unreachable in one graticule, perhaps it is reachable the next graticule over. Istanbul would be a good example of where one might traverse over 3 or even 4 graticules to achieve this.

Perhaps not limit it to only on saturday, perhaps the whole weekend could be used, slipping over into sunday. Truly dedicated geohashers might be able to do it all in one day, however

Try to arrange so that you reach the saturday point at 4pm so as not to miss the meetup. Or get everyone coming to the meetup to join you on the

travelling geohash.

Drop the requirement that you may not have visited the point previously. This seems to be the facet that is getting the most opposition. It was added for additional difficulty

Instead of using the week's retrohashes, recalculate friday's opening with all the weekdates, which will generate new points for sunday through thursday. Thusly, no retrohashing (except friday. not much i can do about that)

P = NP?

Silly boy. Everybody knows that P ≠ NP. --starbird 22:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that was the point. -Robyn 23:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Responses to Suggested Changes

We (or at least I, and I am less geeky than most) do get the idea of it being a living example of the travelling salesman problem. That is its best point. Yes, it's theoretically possible to do this and still get to the 4 p.m. meetup, but it decreases, not increases the chance of doing so. If you dropped the "not visited previously" requirement then the argument "this encourages people not to hash for a week" is replaced with "geohashing is supposed to be about going to new places." The Friday recalculation suggestion takes that away, but is needlessly complicated (admittedly defined as "I don't know how to do it") and seems worse than a retrohash to me, as it introduces more points that no one else is going to. Is there a way to do this using the participants' homes as points? Can't you just try to bike over every bridge in Vancouver once? -Robyn 23:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)