Category talk:Not reached - Did not attempt

From Geohashing

Renaming category discussion

This category was originally intended to be used for "expeditions which went to alternative locations instead of the actual hashpoint". It was perhaps badly named, and the intended purpose is now mixed with "expeditions which were aborted before they began", for which the "expedition planning" category was originally suggested. I would therefore like to rename this category to "Not reached - Attended alternate" which I think fits the intention better. Thoughts, please? — Benjw  {talk} 16:17, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

I think the reason that "the intended purpose is now mixed with 'expeditions which were aborted before they began'" is that there is a need for such a descriptor, and "did not attempt" fits the bill perfectly. I feel "Did not attempt" is and ought to be a good label for expeditions for which serious plans were made and/or the geohasher set forth into the world, but at some point made the decision to abandon the attempt before continuing on to the area of the hashpoint.
Whereas, "going to an alternative location" is really by definition not geohashing. If it is not an attempt on the hashpoint, writing it up as an expedition doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A category for "community social events" might fill that niche. That would free up "did not attempt" for expeditions that weren't attempted, and leave "Planning" for expeditions that really didn't make it past the planning stage. Michael5000 (talk) 08:51, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
When I read "Did not attempt" I think "didn't actually go on an expedition", not "went on an expedition and then abandoned it". Perhaps "Not reached - Attempt abandoned" would be a better category name. I'm also in favor of an "Attended alternate" category, if nothing else than for the sake of clarity. Mystrsyko (talk) 12:10, 22 April 2015 (EDT)
I support "Not reached - Did not attempt" for plans that weren't followed through with. For those alternative locations I think "Not reached - Attended alternate" (or Attended alternative location) fits better than "Not reached - Attempt abandoned" since I feel the latter could be misinterpreted as "left the front door, realized there was rain, abandoned expedition plans" (non-native speaker here, I could be wrong) - Danatar (talk) 06:40, 23 April 2015 (EDT)

I agree that this category is problematic. I think "Not reached - attended alternate location" very nicely describes the original purpose of this category which was that the folks in a graticule could choose an alternate meetup point and it counts as an expedition. (I suspect the original category name was a shorthand for "Did not attempt original hashpoint but went to alternate meetup location instead.")

That said, I'm not sure there really are any expeditions that would fall into this category after we move the alternate locations ones out. I guess we could say (by convention) that if you didn't head out the door for the hashpoint, then it falls into "Expedition planning." Once you head out the door, it becomes "Did not attempt", until at some point, it falls into one of the other "thwarted" categories by the actions of humans, Father Time, or Mother Nature. I'm unclear on where that point is, however. Jiml (talk) 21:02, 25 May 2015 (EDT)

I think Benjw is right and I agree with him. I'm used to it like it is now, but it really is counterintuitive. ---RecentlyChanged (talk)

As a newer member to geohashing, let me first say this was very confusing and also annoying(once I eventually figured things out). To me Expedition Planning is a preliminary step(kind of like the New Report category; Is that expedition from 2008 really still being planned?). Once you are past the planning, there should be a conclusion. I totally agree with Michael5000(although, I think once an expedition has started, it should have the appropriate not reached tag rather than this one) and Danatar. In the interest of being clear, my opinion: Leave 'Not reached - Did not attempt' for those that were not attempted and clean out the planning category, and make a new category for 'Not reached - Attended alternate location' Pedalpusher (talk) 15:59, 1 June 2015 (EDT)

I changed my vote. I know agree with most of you. I see the pint in splitting the category, it will be easier to look for future plans. --RecentlyChanged (talk) 09:03, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

Since the vote after one month is overwhelmingly (8.5 vs 0.5) in favor of renaming, I declare the decision final. - Danatar (talk) 09:32, 3 July 2015 (EDT)

Now that I already converted a bunch of expeditions, I more and more feel that "Not reached - Did not attempt" is not the best name for plans that stayed in the planning phase and I now think "No expedition - Did not attempt" would be better. Your thoughts? I'll continue looking through the "Expedition planning" category but only for miscategorized reports. - Danatar (talk) 05:46, 14 July 2015 (EDT)

I agree, and that name sounds good. For me, geohashing isn't sitting at home dreaming about about that hashpoint in the South Pacific: It's getting out of the door and doing something, even if you don't get to the original plan. It's the adventure of seeing the world. I like separating the planning ones from the other "Not Reached", even though the physical results were the same. I could see using the "Not reached - Did not attempt" if you actually reached into the outer world by figuring out which tour companies would go to that South Pacific island, and what the schedules were, and which of your friends would be willing to go with you, but it takes a lot of planning to make up for the fact that you didn't make it out of the door! Jiml (talk) 10:08, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
I don't think it's that much different. We currently have it set up as 'Not Reached - <reason>' and in this case it's clear that the Not Reached is because of the 'Did not attempt'. Either way though, I'm not opposed. Pedalpusher (talk) 14:18, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
I do not oppose Danatar's proposed rename, but I also don't have an issue with keeping it as "not reached - did not attempt". --Eldin (talk) 17:11, 3 August 2015 (EDT)

Renaming category vote

Thank you, Pedalpusher, for the clear point of view from somebody who isn't used to the category names. I'm creating this new section to count votes. Please add yourself (we need more votes for a fair ruling) or confirm/correct the out-dated votes. No discussions here in order not to clutter the vote, use the above section for discussions:

  • a) Split and rename this category. Use "Category:Planning" for preliminary plans before the expedition, then that tag should be replaced within a few days of the date by one of the following: "Category:Not reached - Did not attempt" if nobody set a foot out of the door OR "Category:Not reached - Attended alternate location" if an agreed-upon alternate location was visited instead of the official coordinates. Of course, once an expedition towards the official coordinates is mounted, the Categories "Expeditions", "Coordinates reached", "Not reached - (Cause)" apply, also temporarily "New Report" until the report is complete.
  • b) Do not split this category, rename only. Only rename this category to "Not reached - Attended alternate location". "Planning" will be used as it is now, both for future plans and for plans that weren't followed through with.
  • c) Similar to (a), but instead of renaming to "Not reached - Attended alternate location" a different name should be used, because not using the official coordinates should not count as an expedition.
    •  ?(Michael5000 proposed "Community social events" in 2013)
  • d) Move expeditions to alternate locations to "Not reached - Attended alternate location", keep "Planning" for preliminary plans and for abandoned plans, use this category as an intermediate stage between leaving the house and aborting the expedition.
    •  ?(User:Jiml proposed this, and prefers it, but can live with a or b above.)

Conversion - Phase 1 complete

Danatar started phase one of the conversion. I believe I've gone through the rest of the pages. At this point, all of the "We did an expedition to an alternate point" expeditions have been moved into the "Attended alternate meetup" category.

I assume now that all of the "Expedition planning" pages need to be moved into "Did not attempt" category. (Though it sort of feels like there should be a category for "I actually had plans for someone to go there." Maybe we should just leave the "Wouldn't it be cool if someone went there?" dreaming pages as "Expedition Planning?" ) Jiml (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2015 (EDT)

For those "Wouldn't it be cool if someone went there?" hashpoints (Jevanyn is very active there, without anybody from New York City taking his cues) I had the idea to just make a note on the graticule page or the Recent non-expeditions page (depending on how globally interesting the spot is) and then delete the expedition page. E.g. move 2015-03-20 40 -74 to the graticule page as it is only interesting for the locals, but directly delete 2015-03-31 40 -73 as the incentive is gone. - Danatar (talk) 03:29, 4 July 2015 (EDT)
I've also seen a few by Jevanyn that indicate that he wants to go to a hash and may still in the future when he is in the area. I think these would be ok to leave in the planning category. In other words, if someone makes an expedition page that can't get there day of, but expresses the desire to eventually complete a retro hash, I think those would be good to leave as Planning. Pedalpusher (talk) 10:56, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
Yes, I had the same idea. The same goes for the origin hashpoint pages that are in the planning category. - Danatar (talk) 15:01, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
Agreed that as long as the page indicates that someone still intends to make an attempt at the hashpoint, even as a retro-hash, the planning category is appropriate. And I've never been a fan of the "wouldn't it be cool if someone could go" pages, so I'm fine getting rid of them, though not sure I'd want to clutter up the page of a graticule which has had actual expeditions with those. --Eldin (talk) 13:10, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
After re-reading what I wrote above, I just wanted to clarify that I'm not advocating of getting rid of the record that someone thought a particular hash location was noteworthy, even if nobody ever planned to go. I just don't think we need an expedition page for each of those, and I'm less than thrilled about cluttering up a graticule's page with the comments on these as well. I'm perfectly ok with having a 'cool hashpoints that nobody went to' page, either globally, or on a per-graticule basis. --Eldin (talk) 17:35, 7 July 2015 (EDT)