Talk:Tron achievement

Discussion Prior to Approval

I think it's cute. It's a neat challenge for people in easy graticules where they don't have much doubt that they will reach the point, or for precision in tracking in bush graticules. It would be funny doing this on the ferry, sitting there watching the GPS and hoping that it wouldn't cross its own track. Searching for a weakness in it, I see a risk that it would encourage people to do something stupid, like ride on the wrong side of the road, or cut through private property to avoid crossing their track. Also I think that if you go down one side of a dead end street and back up the other without crossing your trail, you should be okay. -Robyn 22:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Robyn, any achievement (or geohashing in general) carries the risk that someone may take it as an incentive for stupid behavior. The way I see it, this achievement rather encourages good planning (choosing a suitable route for both ways) and map usage (to avoid going into dead ends). And, sure, if you manage to get yourself back out of a dead end street and continue without crashing into your imaginary wall, that is ok - but you will probably only be able to do that on dead ends that are ($YourCountry.Traffic.RightHanded ? "right" : "left") turns from your route ;) --dawidi 16:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. That was the image I had in my mind as I typed that. A (for me) left turn into a dead end would be unrecoverable, unless I went back on the original route and found a completely different street to approach on. To remove the ambiguity from my comment, I support this achievement because I think it will encourage expeditions in otherwise boring graticules. Your point about advance planning is well-taken, too. -Robyn 16:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I've actually already done this.  :-) On my bicycle hash, I went the way indicated by Google maps, which turned out to be an A-road with a 60mph speed limit and no cycle paths. And on the way back, I took a route (drawn out in advance, just in case the road was awful) which started off by going in the other direction from the hash, and ended up coming back into Cambridge from a different direction. For the last 500m or so, I deliberately took the long way round to approach my house, just so that my outward and inward routes wouldn't overlap at all. I guess geohashers think alike... <grin> And it was great. The "byway open to all traffic" (a.k.a. a grassed track between fields) that I took on the way back was the best fun I'd had all month. Even if it did give my bike a slow puncture which I only discovered when I tried to use it to go to work. -- Benjw 22:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I love it. Pity I'm such a bad bike rider...-- UnwiseOwl 23:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

This achievement is probably best done walking anyway :P --Ekorren 23:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I like the idea, and I'm sure I've already mostly done it. Mostly because it would already invalidate the achievement to park the bike a few metres from the hash before walking out on the meadow, to make a photo, search a cache, buy a bottle of water... I think there should be some exception for local loops which are not part of the way itself. Also, what about local loops like on motorway junctions? Doing that achievement with public transport could really get interesting, due to the line and hub nature of public transport networks. In my mind I just pictured how to depart from platform 12 and arrive at platform 13 over another line, avoiding to cross the passengers tunnel while on the train, and using different station entrances for ways home ;) --Ekorren 23:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I would not want to allow routes with local loops (motorway junctions etc.) for the "strict" version of the achievement, but I would concede that not having any loops with circumfences larger than, say, 0.5% of the entire expedition might qualify for an honorable mention... if that doesn't water it down too much. The point of this achievement (finally I can say that, because I came up with it and I know what I meant ^_^) is, after all, that in some cases you may have to take very silly detours to complete the expedition under these specific rules. --dawidi 16:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't want to allow motorway junctions and similar. Of course the taken route should not intersect at any place. It's more the "park your bike and walk in" thing which forces to go back to the same point and thus invalidates the achievement, whatever it was where you needed to walk in. Also, such violations could easily and without any traces be edited out from the tracklog. I think there should be a rule that allows them, because otherwise you can't really even get a bottle of water or stop to take a photo on the way. And not making any photos would be boring, wouldn't it? Maybe a rule could be added like "temporarily leaving a road/way e.g. to enter a building, get to a better photo point, or reach the actual hash; and then returning to the same spot to continue the actual route, does not invalidate the achievement", maybe also include a maximum distance (100m?). --Ekorren 16:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I know this achievement isn't really up yet, but I hope noone opposes that I did it anyway. I basically had optimum circumstances and I say: The main enemy of this achievement is habit... and technology. Report will soon be up on 2009-04-27 48 9. In other news, I like how the achievement is defined now. It's a good challenge without making it too inconvenient. --Ekorren 19:06, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I like it too, and I'm really pleased with the way the discussion went. It's the perfect model for Category:Proposed achievements and got better as it went along. Your doing it successfully is more support for the achievement. In keeping with the proposal I made about proposed achievements, I support this achievement and think it's pretty much ready to go. And someone should definitely write a tracklog tutorial I'll put up what I know (not much) and let people edit it from there. -Robyn 19:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I strongly support this achievement. I feel it is a great example of an interesting thing to do while geohashing. I think we should have a "safe zone", meaning you can cross your path all you want, within a certain distance (50m seems appropriate to me) of the hashpoint, and your origin. I think allowing for random entry into buildings, however, should not be allowed. I see most people attempting this achievement on relatively close hashpoints, where, with good planning, they can pack any bottles of water or snacks they might need. For people who do enter buildings, or have other small local loops (maybe within that 0.5% margin mentioned above?), we should allow honorable mentions, but I don't feel these should qualify for the full achievement. --aperfectring 13:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Tutorial

How about a tutorial for those of varying stages of tracklog knowledge? Everything from "does my GPS support it" up to "how do I upload it and where" --Thomcat 21:16, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I am now editing the beginning of a "working with tracklogs" page and hope that people with more/different knowledge will enhance it after that link turns purple. -Robyn 19:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Achievement Approved

No one has objected to this achievement in any way that hasn't been addressed. It is awesome. Have fun. If you want to discuss the achievement as it stands do it below.

Special Cases

Me and a friend of mine are going for a longer (a few weeks) biking trip this summer, and will try to take as many hashes as possible on our way. The situation at each hash will however be that our starting point and ending point for the day won't be the same. So what about if we (for each hash point taken) don't cross our own roads, but ends the day on a different point than we started at. Does that still qualify for a Tron Achievement?

According to the rules: No. They require to get back to the point where you started, and myself I think that's for a reason. The reason being that it would be too easy otherwise, as you wouldn't need to find a way to return without crossing your own tracks. --Ekorren 22:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it _would_ count, but only if the entire multi-week trip follows light-cycle rules, which seems improbable... Benson 00:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

improbable, yes, impossible, no. not to mention it would need to take some pretty planning... another reason to allow it. --85.149.120.16 19:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Benson would be right there. It won't matter how long it takes you to get back home, that may well be several days, so if the entire trip is one Tron-style trip, it would count. Just do it - but don't cheat ;) . --Ekorren 19:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I live in a dead-end road. does this make the achievement impossible?

Not entirely impossible. Assuming your country has right-handed traffic and your house is on the right side of the road (when looking from the dead end to the next "live" road), you could to start your expedition on the very right side of that road and turn right onto the "live" road, and when you return, come in from the left side on the "live" road, go past your house staying on the opposite side of the dead end, and then turn back towards your house, without crossing your tracks. Good GPS reception would help with that, though :-) --dawidi 11:01, 29 September 2011 (EDT)

Impossible for multi-modal trips?

Let's say you go by bike, but the hash is in a densely forested area. You're going to leave your bike, get the hash, then come back - which means you failed this achievement. Does that mean this achievement can only be attained for single-modal trips (ie, walk the whole way, or maybe drive through the hash point...)? Stevage 02:13, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

Not necessarily: If you don't travel alone, you could ask your companion to move the vehicle in the meantime. Or you carry your bike. Or you leave your bike and use public transport for the way home (and get your bike later). The possible combinations are endless, but require some more than usual amount of planning. --ilpadre 03:15, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

No 3D loops

Today, I went on an expedition, and just as I started driving, I realized that I could probably earn the Tron achievement, so I pulled over (being careful not to have to back up my car), I pulled out the map, and planned my route. I never crossed my path, but I did take some cloverleaf routes. When I got home, I looked up the details of the achievement and realized that because I went on cloverleafs I didn't qualify. I think that is a dumb restriction, because in Tron: Legacy, the light walls don't extend in three dimensions. McKay (talk) 20:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Tron: Legacy came out after this achievement was proposed (as you can see by the datestamps on this page) but I approve of having a wikipedia:skew lines variant, perhaps with a switch in the template that specifies which ruleset is being used. While we're at it, (see next section). Arlo (talk) 17:10, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

tronsolation prize

Should there be a consolation prize variant for when a substantial loop is made but the hash itself was not achieved? Arlo (talk) 17:10, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

gauging interest in a reversed form

While doing the expedition I am often now keeping in mind my eventual OpenStreetMap achievement, which means being conscious that I am recording a tracklog for later editing (and in particular, alignment of imagery). I do lots of little loops to establish road widths and so on, which reminded me of the Tron achievement due to the circularity, but which is in another sense opposed since I tangled my track. What about an achievement for most times crossed paths (or most per unit of distance travelled so as not to disincentivise short trips)? Retracing wouldn't count; there would have to be a separation (with the same margins of error mentioned here) and then a coming back together. Does that sound fun / worthy of a ribbon? Arlo (talk) 06:05, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

I think I have an answer for myself: It doesn't, really. But if spectacular for some reason, could be worth a gratuitous ribbon achievement. Arlo (talk) 04:37, 22 September 2020 (UTC)