User talk:Relet/Archive/2

Visiting DE

Relet, hail! Just thought I should let you know I'll be in Niedersachsen for at least a week, and of course I intend to geohash. I will have no vehicle, but I understand the trains are quite good. Keep in touch! --Thomcat 23:32, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

geosquishy

I don't claim to understand how these templates and ribbons function, but a recent edit to Template:GeoSquishy_Night seems to have broken it. Juventas 08:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Trespassing

There must be an error in translation somewhere. "One day the only people trespassing will be criminals" comes out to me exactly like "one day the only people doing vandalism will be criminals." Trespassing is an illegal act, so it is by definition criminal. You never know the reason why people want their property private. They could have valuable and very easily frightened livestock. There could be something on the property dangerous to you. They may be running a grow op, making your presence very dangerous to you. And the rules of the game which Randall made say to stay off of private property unless you have permission. It's just like the rules say you have to go on the right day. If you don't, you're doing it wrong and it doesn't count. -Robyn 15:47, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I do not believe in a translation error so much as in a cultural difference. Take for example Woodveil and Woodruff's recent expedition. People called the police because geohashers took photos in front of their house, and drew with chalk on the sidewalk. Were they criminalizing the sport? No - because they could explain that they were playing a game. And I think that this is important. People must realize that not everyone acting a bit weird, or resting on a bench you placed on your lawn, is a suspicious criminal, a burglar or a terrorist. And fortunately, in many places in the world, there is nothing suspicious or criminal about this. I am giving these examples because they have happened "in the wiki" and the latter has been labeled "trespassing".

In other places (the UK will have to serve as one example), you can be detained for taking photos of the police force, of buildings or swimming pools. Should we stop taking photos of people and property while geohashing?

The cultural difference is that in many places, trespassing (as in "entering private property without explicit permission") is not a crime per se. In my place, trespassing becomes illegal when you enter closed buildings, or enter fenced or locked property, or if the property owner explicitly forbids you to enter or move to certain parts of his property. In short, if there is a provable criminal intent. Entering an open driveway or even opening a garden gate with the intent to take photos, or talk to anyone around is NOT illegal (in my understanding). Please note that I am not arguing to blindly disobey fences, no-trespassings signs and access a farm house through the stables. But I think that people should be allowed to use their own common sense; and I still think that this is the intent originally stated in the disclaimer. -- relet 10:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I only just saw this now. In the USA it is not illegal to take photos in front of a house or draw with chalk on a road. So there's no leverage to claim that they could be criminalizing the sport. That's just an example of stupid crazy homeowners. It is illegal, however, in the US to go on someone's property without permission. In fact, it's legally defensible in some parts of the country to shot and kill someone who enters your property without permission. I'm sorry I took so long to understand what you were saying. It's just that you kept saying "trespassing is okay" perhaps not realizing that in English to trespass is a legal concept: it doesn't just mean "enter someone else's property" but has the meaning of wrongdoing embedded in it. In some versions of the Lord's Prayer English speakers ask God to "forgive us our trespasses." It was a contradiction. I suppose I should have realized that in a country where some roads have no speed limit, there might be radically different private property laws too. At least you can now understand why there is a distinction in the US between being weird (legal) and trespassing (illegal). I often geohash in the US, so I have to respect those signs. -Robyn 00:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Re Talk:2009-02-26_30_-86

I really enjoyed this expedition Relet. Glad you did too. I see you had an adventure very I'm jealous of. Your experience in Punta Arenas was great. I have always wanted to go there and almost did once but a colleague stole the trip away from me. I'm wondering what took you there. --Bos 18:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Thwarting

Would you disagree with a redirect making "Failed" expeditions into "Thwarted" ones? Category_talk:Expedition_outcomes#.22Failed.22_Should_Be_.22Thwarted.22 -Robyn 21:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

ReletBot

I like this a lot. Automatic creation of graticule pages is good. Magically filling in the neighbor links is ausgezeichnet. I would have left this comment on User Talk:ReletBot, but I hear there's an unfortunate side effect. --starbird 01:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I suggest scanning an All Graticules page for obvious errors before sending the bot there. Otherwise errors like ALaska and Quatar have to be manually corrected in three places (move gratiule page to new name, change category name and go back to All Graticules for the original error). -Robyn 21:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. (If there were some repetitive errors, such as Quatar->Qatar, it might help there, though, too). And thanks a lot for fixing these propagated mistakes. :) -- relet 22:47, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Could you have the bot not add pages for duplicate gratz? I just had to delete an entry in All Grats (and the page the bot created) for -60,-44, as it was a duplicate. Zigdon 18:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Go for it. I wanted to do that myself but left it capitalized not wanting to alter tradition. --Virgletati 20:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Relet, would your bot be capable of going through the daily photo galleries and spitting out a list of redlinks from photos submitted by ninjas for me to research and correct? -Robyn 00:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Yikes! ReletBot is deleting pages without checking for links, instead of creating redirects! I just noticed it because it broke a Main Page link to All Graticules. If it's not redirecting, it's leaving a HUGE trail of broken links. This is bad. -Robyn 06:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Hum hom. You are right. :\ We should check the "sub"categories listed in Category:Tagged_for_deletion for backlinks. There shouldn't be many, as they are categories - which are not commonly linked to. This is all I can find right now, though - am I missing something? -- relet 07:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

If that was all, it should be fixed now. -- relet 09:24, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

It was the only one I found. I freaked a little because it was on the Main Page. I fixed that one myself, and then realized that as you said, not many Categories would be linked directly. -Robyn 15:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I just fixed damage to this page Aalborg, Denmark that I think Relebot did. Just a FYI. Jiml 21:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I've fixed several others like that, too. It's because some people used {{LOCALYEAR}}, {{LOCALMONTH}} and {{LOCALDAY}} and similar in the map URL, perhaps in an effort to get the graticule map to display the current hashpoint. ReletBet doesn't know about those, so it fills in the rest of the graticule template in the middle of the old map URL, and doesn't delete the old grat template because it doesn't know it's there. Not really ReletBot's fault as the template was used wrongly to start with. -- Benjw 21:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Another note, in defence of people, I think that feature was once implemented, but got removed because it made the wiki load too slowly (because you'd have to calculate the coords each time? I dunno. All I remember is it was slow). Also now I'm really late for work. --joannac 22:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I suspected something like that, but wasn't sure where the problem was. Jiml 01:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Moved graticules

I moved "Riverhead, New York" to "Brookhaven, New York", and changed All Graticules. Will reletbot update the links in neighboring graticules? --Jevanyn

Yup. -- relet 14:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there a way to decline ReletBot's servies, if for example a graticule wants to refer to a neighbour in a different language than the All Graticules name? Best way to do this might be to have it change the link but not the link text in the event of a name change. -Robyn

Currently, any page that does not match the pattern '\{\{[gG]raticule.*?map lat="?%s"? lon="?%s"?.*?\}\}' will be disregarded. So the sneaky way would be to use lon first, then lat. But we should find a more explicit way to formulate that request, i.e. by using a differently named template (which could just include template:graticule using the same parameters), something like "noBotGraticule" or "manualGraticule". In that case I'd like to see a (hidden) parameter "maintainer=" referring to a wiki user which could be triggered in case an update is needed. -- relet 08:15, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice, on both notes. -Robyn 15:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It would be handy to know who the maintainer is for a given page. How about this: a template:maintainer that takes a user name, displays a box with a message like "This page maintained by Jevanyn", and a "Maintained graticule" category? -- Jevanyn 19:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. -- relet 20:15, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be known by glancing at the history? Juventas 01:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

In the history, you can see that a page has been edited in the past, not that someone is currently maintaining it. -- relet 07:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I've just been looking at the discussion on ReletBot about graticule names and have to support starbird in that it is often desirable to link to a graticule by other than its official name. Examples:

• the neighbour is named in a different language
• the neighbour contain macrons or alphabets the linking graticule keyboard doesn't support
• the neighbour straddles two hostile countries and the linking graticule wishes to call it by a name that does not include the name of a country they don't recognize or are at war with
• the neighbour has a colloquial form used by the linking graticule
• the linking graticule has gone to effort to make the links in their template look pretty
• there is a small town or region near the linking graticule that has the same name as the neighbour's official name and they wish to use an alternate name to resolve ambiguity

I see no reason why the link text should ever be changed even if the name of the linked graticule changes. If a link is of the form [[Neighbour|Link text]] and the name changes to Nextdoor, the link can be updated to [[Nextdoor|Link text]]. Considering that you won't be moving a graticule without creating a redirect anyway, the link can just as safely be left as [[Neighbour|Link text]] with no risk, whereas changing it risks upsetting someone's lovingly crafted graticule template. As I said above, I like the suggestions of a maintainer parameter and of the clever workaround you suggest. -Robyn 05:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree that there are lots of useful customizations possible when a graticule page is maintained. The main reason why I wrote the bot was mainly to keep track with all the small changes necessary on the unmaintained pages. I would have liked to have consistent names, but I see that there are good reasons to override these. Still, on the unmaintained pages, it is necessary to change both the link title and name, if a graticule is renamed. -- relet 08:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

it is necessary to change both the link title and name - Why do you say that? No it's not. The link text can be oogooboogoo! and clicking on the link still has the desired effect. -Robyn 15:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If there is an intention behind that, maybe. But take the default scenario that the graticule has been renamed, from Oogoo to Boogoo. The old link was [[Oogoo, Ooland|Oogoo]]. Do you expect the bot to change just the link target to [[Boogoo, Ooland]] or rather both? The desired intention of the graticule template is IMHO to provide the viewer with the names of neighbouring graticules, and a link. Not a "you'll see it when you get there" experience. -- relet 15:34, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, and I see it as access to neighbouring graticule pages, with a "that's what we call it around here, we don't care what they call themselves". I expect the bot to redirect Oogoo, Ooland to Boogoo, Ooland, change [[Oogoo, Ooland]] to [[Boogoo, Ooland]] and either change [[Oogoo, Ooland|Oogoo]] to [[Boogoo, Ooland|Oogoo]], or leave it the freak alone. It's not broken! But so long as there's a way to reject the bot's advances, I'm not going to be militant about it. -Robyn 15:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you still have a maintained graticule page in mind. I agree on the "we call that graticule differently" case, but it is not common. And renaming only the links prevents the correct names from ever showing up on an unmaintained page. -- relet 15:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Requests

• Make all Pacific Ocean X, Y grats have the Pacific Ocean Category. --joannac 03:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

And do the same for all the other water categories (like Southern Ocean, who didn't even have a category until 2 minutes ago). Poor ocean... :( --joannac 04:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Updates in progress. -- relet 08:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

• I added lat and lon parameters to Template:Graticule (using Template:Meetup links) so you can get the grat in peeron/google. So:

Do you think it's useful? If so, can ReletBot go through and add the parameters to each grat page? 2

Meetup links expects a date parameter, is doing auto-dates for the current day too hard given timezones? (I vote yes), and the date isn't that hard to enter in anyway once you're at the page. --joannac 01:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

KML

I don't know where to bring up topics without their own discussion page, but I'm sure Relet will lead me in the right direction. Could we allow uploading of kml files? They are generally very small, and being just plain-text xml, shouldn't pose any security problems. Dawidi looked into a bit for me, couldn't find any known security problems with mediawiki, and was also interested in having it. Juventas 07:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Deleting pages

I know, I'm being a slack wiki admin. Remind me one night to do it instead of playing history. --joannac 20:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I've added comments on the talk page Category talk:Tagged for deletion. Comments would be appreciated --joannac 07:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

LAT,LON redirect pages

There are a few that have a space 24, -143, etc. The convention is no space. But I understand it looks a bit funny when written without a space. For example, referring to the 24,-143 grat looks a little funny, to me. --joannac 03:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well. Think of it as one "word" or set of coordinates maybe. I may also have created a few with space before I realized that they wouldn't work (as in, not be the correct format for some of the automatic links to work). Bot should create the short format, too. Erm.. what exactly is the question? Should we change anything? IMO, the ones with space can be deleted, and any referrals changed. Or the other way around, which is much more work. -- relet 06:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I got distracted halfway through my rant. Can you make sure if reletbot's going to link to a coord page, to do it as LAT,LON (no spaces).

Another issue is the water grats are named as BODY OF WATER LAT, LONG (with the space between the comma and LONG). Should this be consistent with the other naming convention? I guess it doesn't really matter. --joannac 06:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I will fix the space ones manually, I don't think there are that many. Just yeah, don't keep creating them for me to fix. ;) --joannac 06:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, no. And thank you. Shouldn't happen anymore. :D I sometimes learned that there are implicit conventions the hard way.. another reason why I created the page. -- relet 06:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what's the convention for bodies of water? There are still a few in Canada left to do. I was copying the format I saw in other places, but there are a few different kinds. Define one (I have no opinion) and put it in Naming conventions. Naming conventions needs some additions. Relet is right: there are too many de facto standards around here. The decision for the no-space was made by the creator of the ASG template, so if anything were to be reverted, Template:ASG would have to be changed, too. -Robyn 02:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Chrome Screenshot

Taken with chrome 2.0.172.31 and adobe photoshop CS4/11.0:

Rumeli.png

--Superbest 17:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Use "Plus", Please

User:Robyn has pointed out that there is a very select group of people correctly know how use the "+" link on a talk page, and have asked people to use it. Accordingly, I've created the Category:PlusPleasePeople category to help identify those who are correct and know it. Feel free to add yourself should you feel so inclined. --Wade 21:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Bug with changeover of graticule templates?

All of the Alberta graticule templates I've seen changed over have the wrong longitude in the peeron, google and osm links. Example: Stettler, Alberta, take a look at the peeron/google/osm and they're in the English Channel. Same goes for Drumheller, Alberta; Bassano, Alberta; Lethbridge, Alberta; and so on. - Elbie 18:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I will look into it. -- relet 18:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, found the bug. That's because the meetup links template uses the lat parameter (and defaulted to bogus values if it does not exist). As long as you are using the map parameter, it cannot display the meetup links. -- relet 18:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I posted on this on the template discussion. It's the same problem. ReletBot is going to change them all to not use map, right? -Srs0 19:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yup -- relet 19:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Relbot put a category:152 onto Graticule -33,152. This didn't seem right. I changed it to Category:Australia for lack of clever ideas. Jiml 07:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

That's because someone has named it Tasman Sea -33,152, but the (or one of the copied & pasted) link(s) -22,152. Only if the graticule's own coordinates appear in the title, it is treated as a sea graticule. The land syntax treats everything after the last comma as country, and everything before that as graticule name. -- relet 07:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It was a typo in the All Graticules entry. --starbird 09:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

How do you do this?

Include the content of the joint planning/activity report page on all graticule pages in question (you can do this with regular pages just as you can do with templates) - Robyn

Hi Res?

How/where do we send you hi res calendar pics?

kinda new

>> Did we miss you on 2009-08-15? Sorry for that! But you should've seen our faces had you left a marker! -- relet 12:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, we missed each other. But not to worry, we had quite some fun, and will most likely geohash again. I will also post the pictures we took, if not tonight, tomorrow at the latest. We didn't really think about bringing a marker for two reasons: We expected someone to be there, and more important, we all are kinda new to the whole thing. I have only visited one other location, my two drag-alongs hadn't even heard about geohashing until that very morning. Depending on the 2009-08-22 location, we might show up again.

Berlin

<relet> ping davidc. I thought you were driving all over Europe on your way back. :D

I fell for someone right before I left Berlin, so I was desparate to get back as fast as I could and flew! :-D --davidc 23:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

South Korea

I loves me some South Korea. But seriously, how do I ping ReletBot to update the links? -- Jevanyn 21:37, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

It should be scanning All Graticules a few times a day. Unless it got stuck, like just right now. Thanks for pinging me. :) -- relet 21:59, 2 November 2009 (UTC)