User talk:NWoodruff

Hey. What's your opinion on the new page layout? It was suggested on the talk page that the graticule page be rewrote to make it a bit clearer. Do you want me to go ahead and look up all past expeditions in the graticule and link to them at the top, under the ones for January? I just tried to separate the plans from the actual expedition pages. Just thoughts. Thanks. Woodveil 03:49, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

It is still not clear from reading the geohash-by-geohash summary descriptions on the Atlanta, Georgia page which geohashes were attempted and which were merely looked up and listed. No one wants to have to click on every link to to see if there was a successful expedition or not. This is exacerbated by the heading "Geohashes Scouted" because scouted is used by some geohashers to mean they drove by to make sure it wasn't behind a fence or they visited a day early to make sure it was a good location before inviting their friends. I would recommend separate lists of those that resulted in coordinates reached, coordinates not reached, and those that were merely locations looked up on peeron but not visited. Most active graticules don't list the last, except perhaps for particularly notable locations.

In addition, consider including a word or two of interesting details about your best expeditions in the summary line, so people can see which would be interesting to click on. Like "overnight camping", "rented a horse", "neighbor called the cops", "best hot dogs ever," "thwarted by circus tents". As you do more expeditions than most graticules, it might be better to move the older expeditions to a subpage every couple of months instead of just once a year. Good picture. -Robyn 15:05, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

We do more expeditions in one month than most graticules have ever done. Good picture of what? --72.243.74.114 15:40, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

True, but one expedition in a month is more than most graticules have ever done.  :-) -- Benjw 15:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Picture of your graticule. Did you take it? -Robyn 15:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

No, I stole it from my local radio station. Someone from 96.1 FM took the picture and posted it on the radio stations web site. I had it as my desktop of my computer for a while. There were a number of tornado pictures that people uploaded, but I thought that one was the best.

Oh, expeditions with green arrows are successful. Expeditions with red arrows are unsuccessful.

Beta Tests

The anonymous user who keeps recategorizing the February 19th beta test run as Retro expeditions is coming from your IP. If it's you, please stop. It's only a retro if the coordinates were for a day different than the expedition. Those early-2008 meetups were tests of the algorithm, actually conducted in February. Please revert any other such changes you made. Also, could you please log in before editing general pages so that people know who is making the changes? -Robyn 16:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, thankyou for taking the time to edit categories that you thought were wrong. There are a very large number that need doing, and I'm grateful to anyone who wants to help! Can point you towards further pages that need editing if you're interested. -- Benjw 17:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I Volunteered You ...

Your opinion, code and enthusiasm may be applicable to current discussion in Talk:Most active graticules‎. -Robyn 00:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Did you include all Portland's expeditions in your latest update? One of the reasons Thomcat updated so slowly is that he did try to find expeditions that hadn't been reported properly, and made sure they got included. Portland has a lot of expedition reports to write. I think they have a few left for April. -Robyn 05:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Image file sizes

Greetings Nwoodruff - Please try to scale images down to a reasonable size before uploading.. wiki suggests 150kb. A good example is roughly 800x600 at 70% JPEG quality. That's still large enough to make out all details and keeps the server happy. :) -- relet 14:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

In any case, 3-5 MB are much too large, especially considering you're a very active geohasher with lots of expeditions. --ilpadre 16:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

May I echo relet and ilpadre? Smaller images do help the server and also those of us who like to read other people's expeditions. A 6MB photo of two dogs sitting on a lawn is maybe a little bit unnecessary.  :-) You can simply reduce the size in something like MS Paint if you haven't got commercial photo software (like I haven't). -- Benjw 16:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Are you guys kidding? Help the server? Do you even know how this software works?

First of all, every image that you look at on any of these pages is 200x150, NOT the uploaded size. Every time you upload an image file it is automatically made into a thumb image. Every image that you view is a thumb image. Take the photo of two dogs sitting on a lawn [1]. This is the actual image that you see. It is 7 Kilobytes.

if you click on that file, you get to see the wiki page about that image. That image is automatically changed to a thumb nail of 800x600. Here is the thumb image [2] at 800x600.

if you then click on that image of the wiki page for that image, ONLY THEN do you get to see the full resolution of that image. NEVER EVER does that full resolution image ever transfer over the server unless YOU decide that you want to see the FULL image resolution.

Everyone else only sees the 200x150 7kb image, EVER.

I have a 16Gb HDSC card that I have in my camera. I have every single last picture I have ever taken with this camera still on this card. I have a movie of me driving from my front door at home to the front door here at my office some 42 miles away and a hour and a half drive. I have only used 5Gb of that card.

Hard drive space is cheap.

I am starring at 3 U2 rack server each one of them is 2 terabytes of server space. My company purchased each one of those for $499 each.

Hard drive space is ridiculously cheap. A 1 Terabyte drive is now $80[3]. That is 1 MILLION 1 megabyte images. I'll never upload 1 million images.

If the web master would like for me to donate a 1 TERABYTE drive to the cause as a way of a Geohash tax for my extended storage space, then have him contact me and I'll send one in just for my storage needs.

But, NO. No matter what size of an image file anyone uploads, all you see is the thumbnail of that picture.

NO matter what size is uploaded only the thumbnail image is sent over the internet unless specifically requested. As a matter of fact, expeditions that have 10 pictures or so per page, use far more bandwidth that I use.

So, if you want to complain about images and sizes, you need to complain to the groups that put far more images on their pages than I do.

Not only do we host our own websites, we also use a hosting company Vortech [4]. They host for us more than 500 domains with unlimited hard drive space and all that costs us is $30 a month. So, my extra 120Mb of image files isn't costing the wiki page any more money that it would if I only uploaded 200x150 thumbnail images.

And NO, I'm not hurting their servers.

Hurrah! We had a bet on. Several of us predicted that would be your response.  :-) -- Benjw 18:05, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Of what, that I would have to explain how web hosting works, for people that don't understand it?

Or, that I would have to correct someone that speaks of nothing they know about? I have to do that almost every day of my job. I get people every day claiming to be experts that actually end up knowing nothing. --NWoodruff 18:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't lose heart, Socrates had the same problem. --ilpadre 18:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Fantastic... Which one of you is supplying the hemlock --NWoodruff 19:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Whether or not it causes problems for the server is not the issue here. The person who set up the wiki requests that we not upload images larger than 150kb. They didn't put a hard limit, likely so that an occasional image slightly larger than that can still be posted time and again. The person/people hosting the wiki server are gracious enough to host it for free. If you don't like the 150kb limit, then please bring it up to a moderator or the site admin. If you ask nicely, and present a good argument, they are generally quite accommodating. If, for some reason, they do not wish to raise the limit, then please abide by their requests. You can always post the full size images on your own site, and either link to them from the expedition page, or post smaller versions via the normal method and put a link in the image description. Thanks. --aperfectring 19:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I have contacted the server admin about this and he has removed the warning. --joannac 07:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

THANK YOU!!! joannac --NWoodruff 11:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

A sense of community

Weighing in here. There seems to be a growing amount of animosity between you and parts of the community. Is there anything we can do to work this out without resorting to pointless antagonism? Whatever our reasons are for being here, surely there are better things to discuss/argue over than webservers and file sizes. Xore 20:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I deal with every day here at my work, why someone can't do their job. I listen all day to people sitting at a computer supposedly doing their job whining and complaining that they can't do their job because something that computer did. It is probably true with most companies. There is nothing wrong with their computer. They just have to give excuses to not do their job.

When you are the number one at something you do, other people like to whine and complain on why they can't be the number one. Just go read other comments on other pages, and read all the whining and complaining that they will never be in such a great graticule as Atlanta.

I'm tired of listening to people whining and complaining that they can't go out and geohash, or I'm cheating or I burn too much gasoline, or I have it too good.

I've done nothing but try to help this community and even accepted positions when I was volunteered to do work. Then all people wanted to do was bitch about what I was volunteered to do.

I've actually had enough listening to all of this. I know of what I speak about or I don't speak at all. My dad taught me that, God rest his soul.

If I knew for a fact that a few megabyte image files was costing someone 3 or 4 cents more a month in hosting fees, then I would have never uploaded the large image files. The sad fact is that it doesn't. Yet, people on here like to pretend they are the Image Police to find something to complain about.

I've worked in the hosting industry for almost 5 years now. If any thing that I have done on this server is costing them even 1 cent ($0.01) more a month, they need to move to a new hosting company.

It is the people that can't do, finding things to make it a less fun place to be for all, is the growing amount of animosity that you speak of.

Someone just a few days ago, decided that they were going to change the name of My graticule and didn't even ask me. How do you think they would like it if I went and changed theirs?

Someone else complaining on my user page, decided that my puppet geohash was not a coordinates reached and with out even consulting a sole changed it to not reached. I had to inform him that not only was he not the coordinates reached police he was even wrong in his assumptions.

Someone else was complaining that my Saturday meetups where not of a correct number. I had miss counted by one. They took it upon themselves to correct my ribbon on my own personal page with out even consulting me. At the next Saturday meetup I attended, I would have caught my own mistake and changed it myself. This person had to argue with me the exact rules for Saturday meetups. Did he become the self appointed Saturday meetup police? It became so pointless of an argument with this guy that I removed myself from the Saturday meetup page [5].

Geohashing is supposed to be Fun. If everyone else just got out and Geohashed and quit deciding they were going to be self important there would be a lot more to this web site and Geohashing as a whole.

When you are number one, every one gets to take a swipe at you.

Geohashing is supposed to be Fun. If everyone else ... quit deciding they were going to be self important...

When you are number one, every one gets to take a swipe at you.

o.O

(oh, and for the record, it's called tall poppy syndrome) --mykaDragonBlue [- i have no sig -] 22:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we all know the feeling. -- relet 12:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I for the most part stay to myself. I don't go bothering people because I don't like them to bother me. I went poking around a bit and did notice that I am not the only one that gets hassled by the self important people here. Never ever have I posted on someone else page. Well except may be for Robyn. But I sure haven't hassled her about anything. So, if you are in the mood to hassle someone over something trivial or you like to make up stuff to become self important, go bother Robyn or ReletBot instead. Thanks --NWoodruff 02:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Your instructions are contradictory. For example: should people bother you before they change the name of a graticule you have hashed in, or just ask politely on the respective Talk page like it has happened in the case of Talk:Roswell, Georgia? According to the time stamps, ilpadre has waited for two months before actually changing anything. -- relet 12:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Is a graticule name change something trivial? I do not watch any page. I didn't know the name changed until I did a hash in the graticule that I work in. Call me ill informed but if I was going to change a graticule name, I do believe that I would contact each person that did an expedition in that graticule before I went changing anything. Wouldn't you? Isn't that common sense?? Or is common sense too much to ask for? --NWoodruff 14:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes (to both questions) -- a graticule name change is pretty trivial (isn't it?), and contacting people to ask about it is indeed common sense. However, for the latter, writing something on a graticule talk page and leaving it there for two months does seem a sensible way to go about it. It's what usually happens on a wiki. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that if any hasher has an interest in a graticule (or other page), then they might have it on their watchlist or at least check the page for any changes every so often. Contacting each person individually would be a nice bonus, but I wouldn't say it's a necessity to do it. -- Benjw 14:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

And that is exactly why most people will argue with you. If I were you, I would start consulting other people before you made any more changes. --NWoodruff 14:59, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Thankyou for your advice. Lately I've been going through a lot of the old expedition photos and putting date and location categories on them. Should I consult the original poster of the photo before doing that? What if they aren't active any more and I don't get a response -- should I add the category anyway, or leave it? I also tend to correct spelling mistakes, but should I be consulting other users before doing that? Does the consultation have to be recorded on the wiki talk page as 'evidence', or can I do it in the IRC channel? -- Benjw 15:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Common sense should give you an answer on that. Again on that, you really need to start consulting other active geohashers. --NWoodruff 15:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, some of the changes that people make are nit-picky and I don't see the need for them. However, I would much rather have that than what we had for the first few months of this wiki's life, which was basically few rules and little organization. I see what people like Benjw do as a net benefit to the wiki, making it a much better resource for people who are interested in geohashing. It has long been accepted practice on this wiki to use the talk pages to discuss more major issues (like renaming a graticule). This is mostly because we have a lot of no longer active people, and taking the time to e-mail every single one and waiting for responses from them would prevent most of the cleanup that people here try to do. Trying to figure out who is active and who is not could also prove to be difficult. You have voiced your opinion that you would like to be e-mailed when someone wants to make a change to a page you have an interest in, and I encourage people to do so. However, please have some understanding that this is not the general way that people have gone about such things in the past, and there will occasionally be problems and oversights. On a side note, I have no insight into what most people think, but I have no problem with people making minor changes on their own and using the talk page for discussion of more major things, which I see renaming a graticule with expeditions to be. --aperfectring 15:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I am in agreement with you aperfectring. Deciding what is trivial and non-trivial is what needs to be consulted on if you have any doubts. I would have decided without a second thought that a spelling fix would be trivial. Adding location and categories is also trivial. I'm sure that both of us can agree on that.

I'm also sure that you would agree with me that having to ask about something like that isn't trivial. With questions like that, I would prefer all questions be treated as non-trivial and consult with as many as possible geohashers that would respond. --NWoodruff 15:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You've hashed in the Roswell, Georgia grat three times between ilpadre's first message and the name change. I would have assumed you read the talk page then, and had nothing to add. Can we assume this in future?

Also, watching pages means you get updated every time the page (or talk page) is changed. Is there a reason you don't want to watch pages? Doing so means I can just change the Atlanta talk page and know you'll get it, rather than changing the talk page and needing to email you. It also makes discussion transparent to everyone. --joannac 21:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

No one owns a graticule. I have seen changes to the names and page layout of graticules I have pioneered, and only know about them because I watch the pages. If I'm not interested, I don't watch, or delete the notifications unread. In my opinion, a two month notice on a graticule talk page is a perfectly acceptable way to rename a graticule. "E-mail this user" I reserve for sending data that can't/shouldn't be transferred on the wiki or trying to get a hold of inactive users. Part of wiki is open communication, so everyone can see what everyone else is doing and make it better. Talk pages are the way to consult with as many geohashers as may be interested.

Editing User talk pages is the normal and correct way to communicate on the wiki. Edit the page, watch the page, and wait for a reply. It's not considered interfering in someone else's affairs. If you've perceived your talk page as a personal space and other people's writing there as a violation, then one could understand you being affronted. If you want yours to be pristine, initiate and maintain conversations on other people's, I suppose. I have edited other people's actual user pages, usually to help new wiki users by demonstration, e.g. downsizing photos that were displayed too large to see, or fixing errors in ribbons. Infamously, I also messed up JimL's page but everything on wiki is fixable, so everyone just laughed at me. If someone doesn't like a change, they can just change it back and then the need for the change can be discussed on the talk page. You yourself have made changes that people didn't like. Some were changed back, some were discussed and improved by the group, right? -Robyn 21:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I never said that I owned the Talking Rock Graticule. Having lived in the Atlanta Metro area, most all of my life, I've been here since 1976, calling that graticule Roswell is like calling that graticule Atlanta. With a name like Roswell, it might as well be Atlanta graticule.

I do believe that if you added up the people that live in Roswell and Marietta, it would be a larger population than the city of Atlanta. There are 5 million people in the metro area of Atlanta. I live in Norcross, still a metro area city to Atlanta. Someone new to geohashing would look at the Roswell name of the graticule and would be very confused about if that graticule was a part of Atlanta.

Calling it Talking Rock there would be no confusion. I"ve been to Talking Rock, Georgia. My mom has 5 acres of land in Talking rock. It is a very small town. I don't see how it got the name in the first place given "The Rules".

Call it Dalton, Ga. I"ve been to Dalton many a times. There would be ZERO confusion if it had that name. All I am saying is that calling it Roswell, Ga is going to be very confusing to local people here to Atlanta. AND since none of you have ever lived here let alone been here, you wouldn't have known that.

I"m one of the most active Geohashers out there. I"m the only person to have geohashed in that graticule. It seemed kind of odd that someone waited until they complained about things that I have accomplished to all of a sudden change the name. Especially since they have no idea about the local culture. It me it wouldn't seem that hard to leave me a note seeing around that time I was geohashing daily. Like Joannac said, I geohashed three times since the question to alter the name. Couldn't that person have noticed that it was active in that time and thought to themselves, "Well, maybe I should ask that person?"

To me it seemed real ill timed and just another way to show ME, that they were self important.

I really could careless what it is called. Do you see me attempting to change it back??? No. I'm telling you though, leaving it that name will cause confusion to local geohashers of the Atlanta area. --NWoodruff 01:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly the sort of comment that ilpadre was hoping to invoke by posting on the talk page. That way if you couldn't care less what the graticule was called, you could ignore it, but if you had knowledge and an opinion you could weigh in. I'm not quite sure from the above which of those applies to you, but it sounds as if you agree that Talking Rock is a tiny town (but a great name!) that shouldn't have had a graticule named after it under the naming conventions, but that you feel that Roswell is too closely associated with Atlanta to bear the name. (I don't quite understand that, as one of the graticules neighbouring my home is named after a city that is jammed right up against Vancouver with no break in population.) Perhaps you can elucidate and help the wiki find the best name for the graticule. -Robyn 02:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)