Talk:Achievements

From Geohashing
Revision as of 23:14, 19 June 2009 by imported>Robyn (Don't put new suggestions here.)

This page was getting crowded with suggestions that have already been implemented. I've deleted/condensed a lot of old talk so that we can FIND the new talk. If I deleted something you were attached to, you know where the history tab is. -Robyn 15:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Award Icons

Matt suggested icons. DONE. Discussion of various now-implemented icons and templates deleted.

Proof

Proof criteria determined.

If the author of an achievement wants to limit it, they can. If not, not. It's all pretty-much honor system, anyway. Ted 02:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


Am I correct in assuming you have to reach coords to claim most of these awards? "Reach" being a subjective term anyway, depending on your brand/age(/lack of) GPS. Awards you don't have to reach coords for:

Consolation prizes
  • Correct: I don't think you qualify for these if you DO reach the coordinates.
Hashcard
  • Correct, from the Hashcard proof section: "You can earn this achievement without reaching the coordinates, but not without seriously trying to get as near as possible."
Admit One
  • Correct, "You are still eligible for the award even if the exact location was ultimately inaccessible, e.g. inside the lion enclosure at the zoo, or on the actual playing field at a sports event."
Counting towards XKCD-centurion
  • Sort of correct: you must either meet people or achieve the coordinates.

Please add any others.

  • Or conversely if you have "sponsored" an award and intended it to be only for people who reached the geohash, make sure that it makes that clear in the achievement text.

Oh, and reaching. So if you have a GPS, then within the margin error of your GPS. If not, identifying the location in some way via google maps or similar. --joannac 00:56, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

  • I'd be somewhat unimpressed by someone who claimed a major award, like Centurion, or some very difficult geohashes without a GPS unless there was some very strenuous proof involved. I know from experience that "250 m into the bushes from where this road meets that one" can be way way more than 250 good paces into the woods. It's all honour system, really, but one honours some claims more than others. -Robyn 03:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Organization of Achievements Page

Page reorganized a couple of times as the list grew.

If you are going to add an achievement add some explanation of what you mean, and create a page. Evil Monkey 11:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If you're not sure if your idea is a good one, suggest it here first for comment, then if people like it, add it appropriately.

Creating New Achievements

This page has been superseded by Proposed achievements. Do not post new proposals here.

If there is a non-implemented achievement here that you would like to see happen, follow the proposal guidelines there and write up a good description of how the achievement should work on its own page with the Category:Proposed achievements, and then edit the page in response to any objections you get. -Robyn 23:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Philosophy of New Achievements

Seems kinda silly to me to have an award for every single mildly interesting situation that might happen during a geohash. What's the point of having five hundred achievements? Keep it simple. --Joel 20:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, at least for now. Let's let this evolve in "brainstorming" mode, and let it self-organize for a while. After some time has passed, we can see how things are shaping up and then present ideas for organization. For now, though, I'd hate to quash anyone's creative muse just because someone else thinks it's too silly. Heck, it is the Spontaneous Adventure Generator, after all, and a silly-grin is part of the proof-photo requirement...! Ted 02:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Ideas

How about something like a Kevin Bacon achievement -- that would be, I suppose, a variant of the meet-up achievement, where you meet a complete stranger at the geohash and then discover an acquaintance that you have in common. (E.g., Darcy and Zarah met at the first LA geohash and discovered that a friend of Darcy's from grad school was a friend of Zarah's from undergrad.) --Darcy 09:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

An award for playing some kind of ball game at the hash? I personally am a large fan of Jasper Fforde (anyone know the author?) and would like to have a time dilation preparedness ribbon. (Time dilations are stopped from becoming really bad shit by throwing a sphere through them. . .I don't know, obscure references seem in the spirit of the thing.)-Sean

I'm a bit of a Jasper Fforde fan, but if anyone wants to play Croquet Ffrodian style I'll have to go looking for some body armour. Let there be sport. -- UnwiseOwl 10:08, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
There is no way I'll be playing croquet Fforde style. Maybe regular style. Or some other ball game. -Sean

I've created a (Almost) Lost Something While Geohashing Consolation Prize/honorable mention ribbon - what do you think? the ru 09:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

That's amusing. You need an icon from XKCD#71, or Lost, Lost in Space, maybe Land of the Lost. --Jevanyn
I'd support a Lost consolation prize. Is this for people who do or do not reach the geohash, or both? You need to make an achievement description page too showing requirements for proof and whatnot. The standard geohahshing icon is pretty boring for the ribbon, though. How about from one of those bubble in space comics? Might be #71, I didn't heck Jev's link. -Robyn 16:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
71 is "I lost you in the trees". IMO it could be used for any expedition, successful or not. It would be hard to reach the coordinates if you had lost the GPS receiver, for example. It's more intended for amusing trivia than as a serious prize though. I'll make a real icon if enough people are interested. The only problem is where I should put the ribbon - maybe I shouldn't clutter the Template: namespace with silly things, yet keeping it under a User: isn't very elegant. --the ru
"Serious" doesn't describe many of the achievements, so I wouldn't worry about that. It could either be in Achievements#Challenge Achievements#Single Geohash Challenges for "reaching a geohash despite getting lost/losing something" but I think it would best fit in Achievements#Consolation Prizes for "losing something while geohashing, even if you did get to the point." -Robyn 18:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Walking on water discussion moved to Talk:Walking on Water Geohash -Robyn 21:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

  • As an incentive not to trespass, I think there should be an award like the centurion for no trespassing. More on the No trespassing talk page. -Robyn 15:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

How about something for those special dates? Pi Day (3/14), Mole Day (10/23 between 6:02 AM and 6:02 PM), Darwin Day (2/12), Square Root Day (3/3/09), Earth Day (4/22). Or any other " special" date deemed significant by the masses. Mr. Bow Tie 01:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a joke. Parting With Parts for burying and leaving your own internal organ at a geohash. Here's a summary of the discussion on the geohashing IRC

I just parted ways with my appendix.
I'll make you a special ribbon if you bury it at a geohash location.
I got five teeth removed, can I use them?
It should be organs or limbs only. If we allow teeth, people will want to use hair or fingernail clippings.
That should qualify if you had, like, a pound of them.
What if I shave my head at the geohash?

Relet wants someone to iron laundry at the geohash and get a ribbon for it: Template:Irony

I wasn't sure where to put this, but I had an idea for an achievement as I was reading the Cover Stories page. Could we have a Waldo or Carmen San Diego achievement for those people who find someone dressed as Waldo or Carmen San Diego at the hash? Maybe even if they dress up as one of the characters themselves. Just a thought... Crazycaveman 16:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

It goes over on Talk:Achievements. I'll put it there. I think it's one of those that falls in the category, "do it, and we'll think about giving you a ribbon." I imagine a "reach the geohash in costume" ribbon would go over well. - Robyn 16:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Bullseye Achievement - for visiting the exact centre of your graticule, i.e. X deg 30'.000, Y deg 30'.000 en route to or from the geohash. Maybe I'll probpose it properly later. Just wanted to save the idea. -Robyn 22:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

How about a Wikipedia Achievement? It goes like this: You gather a piece of information while you are on an expedition. This piece of information qualifies for a serious edit to an article on Wikipedia, so you go ahead and put it into the article. It may even be a completely new article, but any joke articles or vandalism to existing articles is strongly discouraged -- Wikipedia is real stuff, after all, and different rules apply compared to this fine Wiki. The achievement will probably mainly happen because of photographs taken during expeditions, but I'd like to keep it open to anything that clearly came from the expedition and qualified for a serious contribution to Wikipedia, and not have it limited to only the English Wikipedia. Proof is done by a link to the Wikipedia article that the contribution has been put into. Example: Pictures for Mammendorf on Wikipedia (de) were taken during 2009-04-03_48_11. The article still is really short and doesn't have a lot of information in it, but the pictures were a small improvement anyhow. I like the idea mostly because it is useful to the public, but also because I had fun finding stuff that qualified for Wikipedia during expeditions.

  • A possible picture for the ribbon.

--Zb 18:57, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

But it doesn't work because Wikipedia disqualifies original research. Everything is supposed to be based on citations from authoritative sources. They delete original research. So unless you go to a library, which is too obscure, doesn't work. -Robyn 18:59, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, it seems to be o.k. for pictures. Like, the churches are there and the fact they're there is proof enough, I think? Aren't pictures proof and self-explanatory enough? (BTW: Reading your concern, it seems like I've already picked the right picture for the ribbon, eh?) --Zb 19:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I like the icon, and lots of icons to have around for Gratuitous achievements are good. Whenever I've put up pictures of places I've been to illustrate Wikipedia articles they have been taken down. I really don't think they like that sort of thing. So if you proposed this according to the proposed Category:Proposed achievements system I'd give it a "do not oppose." -Robyn 19:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I see how your concerns exist for a reason. My experience has been different, however. Here's another example: After I went on 2009-03-28 48 11 and took a picture of the yellow engine, I looked at this wikipedia article, where there had already been a section about the few remaining engines of this class, mentioning the yellow ones used for construction work. I uploaded the picture and it has been accepted. Maybe it really depends on the subject of the article. Especially with pictures, though, I think Wikipedia depends on original work by contributers because stuff from books or other websites is copyrighted, with few exceptions. For this reason, mainly, I think it's really weird your contributions have been turned down. --Zb 19:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I oppose the achievement because I think it encourages adding non-significant or misunderstood details to wikipedia articles. If you happen to find out something that should be mentioned there, do it for the sake of the truth, but don't just write something to get a ribbon. --Ekorren 19:39, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Agree. Pro: The Achievement might encourage people to contribute to Wikipedia in a helpful way. Con: The Achievement might encourage people to put strange stuff into Wikipedia. I've already named the concerns above and would definitely include them into the rules, and I think people should be able to distinguish between a game (here) and serious stuff (Wikipedia) and still do something useful, but I still see how folks might get it wrong. Let's see what others say...--Zb 19:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Implemented Suggestions

Not Implemented

Summary of ideas that have been suggested and then ignored or just not yet implemented.

  • Passing Through - went through geohash but couldn't stay. Examples include going through it on a train, plane, or chased by wild animals
  • Party Crasher - Interrupted a social event (i.e. wedding) - Good idea
  • Hammer Time - Reached geohash using the MC Hammer Slide
  • Tape Measure Geohash - Have a tape measure extending contest at the geohash
  • Cross Country Geohash - Travel from point A to B at the rate of one Lat/Lon quadrant a day, reaching the respective Geohash each day.
  • Wedding Geohash - Get married at the geohash. Wouldn't that be hilarious? Issue invitations that explain the algorithm, but no one knows exactly where it will be until the day of. You might have to rent a boat, even a helicopter. Obviously I'm not serious.
  • Close but No Cigar / Close Enough for Government Work consolation -- You get within about 100m and decide you're "close enough" (I see a lot of these on weekday meetup pages
  • No "There" There consolation -- Your GPS can't decide if you've found the hashpoint or not
  • Midnight Madness Multihash -- special multihash for going to a geohash for Friday or Saturday), then at midnight travelling to the Saturday/Sunday geohash as quickly as possible.
  • Discover something of previously unknown historic importance / a new species / a UFO while geohashing.
  • Idol Geohash: meet a famous person, such as a band member or an actor.
  • "D20 Hash" or something of the like for role playing or a "Board but not bored Hash" for playing board games at the hash site.
  • Time-Travel Geohash Award - coordinates fall in a "renaissance faire" or going to to a geohash site of some date in the past, preferably in period garb. (the only people interested disagreed on what a Time Travel Geohash would be)
  • What if the geohashers play guitar hero at the point? GHHGH! (no interest, few locations have electrical power)

Deleted, Merged, Rejected or Downgraded Achievements

Achievements that have been actively removed or rejected.

I think it's not a bad idea to go through the list from time to time. You'll often come up with an idea which seems good enough for an achievement, and notice later that it's just not being accepted. -- Relet 00:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I totally support deletion of the subjective achievements. -Robyn 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I support deletion of superfluous and unused achievements. Nemo 13:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't just delete unused achievements if they are hard. They can be something to strive for even if someone hasn't got them yet. -Robyn 01:55, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Strip Club Geohash - boring (probably unless you actually hit one). But then you could just create one of these for anything you visit.
    • I disagree. A strip-club is unusual enough and "off color" enough that having one's geohash spot fall on one is an event worthy of "hey, that's a good story" and sharing with friends. IMO, that makes it a good candidate for an achievement. It's like the graveyard one -- graveyards are far more common than strip-clubs, but the're still "off beat" enough that you'd tell your friends "you won't believe this: the spot was IN A GRAVEYARD, today!" "Good stories" are geohash achievements, IMO. 64.74.213.98 14:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Smoking Geohash - not actually difficult to achieve, and not that unusual that it could be called interesting.
    • I disagree and, hence, removed the delete tag, and placed my defense on the talk page (per delete-tag instructions.) 64.74.213.98 14:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  • The underpants geohash which was merged with Geoflashing
  • The MacGyver and Maker awards were partly merged.
  • The Easy Geohash which was degraded into a [term needed] (subjective achievement? I'd like to remove the term achievement).

Award Suggestions

Recent suggestions still being debated. Make a subsection if you have lots to say about your suggestion, else short description below.

Highlander Geohash Achievement?

As a fencer, I may be biased in considering this idea mildly awesome. Further, there are definite safety, liability, and standardization concerns which need to be considered before it could be successfully implemented.

Off the top of my head: (no pun intended)

-Safety concerns being most important, it should go without saying that only practice weapons are permitted. Standard padded practice attire (or acceptable analogues thereof) and facemasks for both participants are also a necessity. There are some concerns specific to fencing outdoors like weather conditions, ground conditions, heat stroke in the warmer climates, and public safety which must also be considered. Further, it stands to reason that attempting to attain a Highlander achievement would increase the likelihood of the geohashers involved satisfying the requirements necessary for a Police achievement. Thus, it would behoove any such geohashers to know their rights beforehand, and conduct themselves with the dignity, honor, and respect that their noble schools have no doubt instilled in them. Note, however, that it is always unwise to challenge an officer of the law to any duel or fencing contest in response to a perceived lack of the above mentioned virtues on their part.

-Different weapons and scoring techniques would make competition between foil and sabre practitioners (for example) difficult to judge. This problem would only be compounded by the inclusion of Kendo or other fencing traditions, yet their inclusion is essential to a true replication of highlander conditions. Possible solutions might be standardized rules of engagement, inclusion of other geohashers as arbiters, or agreement on specific terms before the contest. A combination of these solutions may be ideal.

-Really, anybody who bouts at geohash coordinates deserves an achievement, yet there can be only one. Perhaps there might be one achievement ribbon for the victor, along with a slightly less cephalic ribbon for the less fortunate participant?

-Depending on the size and population density of the naval craft being used as a venue, it may be inappropriate, unsafe, or illegal to attempt to earn both the Water achievement and the Highlander achievement in one go. That said, given the existence of a Restricted Area achievement, a "Swashbuckling" achievement for the few pirates who have the means (Oil drill workers? Cruise ship crew? Messiahs?) seems to be indicated.

I look forward to the day when graticule pages come complete with the names of local duelists, so as to facilitate travel for epic battles in far-away lands ^_^

James Castle Award

I saw an exhibit of James Castle art at the Philadelphia Museum last year, and he's been featured on television once or twice. He was a self-taught artist who specialized in making things out of found objects and other materials most people would consider trash. This got me thinking: how about an award for art made from stuff found at/around a geohash?

Zoological Awards

  • Heffalump award: for getting a picture of an "unusual" animal. Unusual as in, squirrels and alley cats don't count. Animals in a zoo also don't qualify, unless the geohash is in their pen :-)
  • Old McDonald award: for farm animals
  • Audobon award: for pictures of birds taken near the geohash. Minimum 3?
  • Jacque Cousteau: for pictures of aquatic life taken near a geohash. The geohash doesn't have to be in the water, but should be relatively close by.
  • Go Diego Go award: for helping a wounded animal near a geohash.

BTW, I'm also looking for pictures of animals to add here. With geohashers on 5 continents, we should get a pretty good assortment :-). -- Jevanyn 16:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd support an award for finding an animal at the geohash, but I think cats and squirrels should count. An animal just on the way, meh. I was also thinking of a more general "Look What I Found!" achievement, for when you get to a geohash and just want to tell the world what was there, without having to create an achievement for every bizarre thing that could be at a geohash. Maybe divide it into Animal, Mineral & Vegetable? -Robyn 17:35, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't think we need an achievement for interesting things/animals found at the hash. Also, even seemingly ordinary soil could be exciting for a geologist. Such an achievement would just be too subjective. If you stumble upon something unusual during your expedition, write about it in your expedition report. If it's unusual enough, you'll get a place in the Hall of Amazingness anyway. But I wouldn't oppose creating a "Look What I Found!" gallery page (similar to that recently created Wildlife gallery page). --Ilpadre 17:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I understand the desire to put the brakes on too many "what's the point?" achievements, but you've just expressed an interest in a gallery of 'hey look at that' stuff. One of the advantages of achievements is that people like them, they collect them and thus without even knowing it, add themselves to a list on the category page. Compare the number of people listed in the "Winners" section to the number of Users linked to the category for any award, and you'll see what I mean. Perhaps we need a new category of ribbon that isn't an achievement, isn't a consolation prize, it's just there Serendipity Ribbon? It would include the Easy Geohash the Animal (and Mineral & Vegetable) ribbons and so one. I don't see anything wrong with a geologist having a ribbon on his page commemorating a special kind of granite. Once upon a time I said that the relative difficulty or specialness of the achievements doesn't matter because people can compare for themselves the difficulty of parachuting onto the geohash versus writing a postcard there. And then someone independently created a postcard achievement and it's great. -Robyn 18:20, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I love the idea of a 'look what I found' award. We could have a ribbon like the one for global hash achievement, where each section becomes colored as you achieve the individual portions. --Kate 21:12, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I'm with my hashing buddy Kate, that sounds like fun. Just think of what the ribbon would look like...-- UnwiseOwl 22:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Handshake

Perhaps some sort of achievement for most people met? Many of the late Boston crew might be tempted to return to Geohashing to claim it ;) This seems different than Kevin Bacon (above), but somehow related... --Thomcat 21:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Geokegging

... hey, if you have an award for getting laid, why not one for throwing a spontaneous party?

Just do it. Shiny ribbons will follow. Also, if you're popular, you might aim for the (original) Migration Achievement. :) -- relet 21:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Tracking Awards

I visited the "Centurion" page only to sadly discover it's part of XKCD-100. Seems like we need some sort of Hash Counter and Saturday Hash Counter (or awards). I just hit my 5th hash (with only one Saturday meetup), and I'll keep going to 100, even if they aren't all Saturdays (or all at 4:00pm or ...) Thomcat 13 June 2008

I agree. They are getting hard to count, and I've only attempted 14.

Recommend starting a user-page and putting your hash-participation in a section, there. Then it should be a simple matter to demark 5, 10, 25, 50, etc... Ted 21:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Records vs achievements

Just wondering if "records" wouldn't make more sense than "achievements" with arbitrary numerical values. Ie, rather than having an achievement for 100 different graticulas (a very big ask), why not just records for "most graticules". There are a few already (highest, lowest, hottest, etc...as well as most consecutive).

Object. Reason: Record holders will continue collecting more points, making it impossible to anyone else to gain that achievement, so one dedicated hasher takes the fun out of it for everyone else.

A few other ideas:

  • Fastest (from time coordinate is announced)
Object. Has been discussed already and turned down for timezone issues. Depending on place and day of week, the coordinates are not even valid at the moment they come out. Also, in some timezones the coordinates come out in the middle of the night, so these people wouldn't have any chance. --Ekorren 11:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
So have a record for each timezone. No reason a Melburnian has to compete with a New Yorker. Stevage 01:09, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
You totally didn't get the point. It's not that some timezones have it more difficult, it's that "waiting for the coordinates and then run off" is simply impractical in many cases while standard in a few other. Australians would need to check the coordinates and run off if suitable in the middle of the night, which is basically not a good time to go to most destinations. In Europe, Asia, and everywhere for the weekend and NYSE holidays, the coordinates are not valid at the time they are announced. So if I would run off to make it a fast geohash, I'd get there on the wrong day, and need to come back the day after. And visiting the actual day's coordinates should always be preferred, that's basically what geohashing is about. Also, in the end it comes down to waiting for the nearest point which is covered by the Couch Potato honorable mention. --Ekorren 07:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Furthest (from position when coordinate announced)
"useless-burning-of-fuel-and-driving-too-fast-achievement"? --Ekorren 11:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Heh.
Well, actually, that would finally be taken by someone who does a long planned intercontinental flight on saturday and then goes hashing on sunday, and then never be looked at again. There's the globetrotter achievement for this case.
  • Endurance (drop the 7 day requirement, just make it most consecutive without spending a night in the same place twice)
See general note below.
  • Hashcram: most people assembled at the point at one time...
See phonebooth stuffing and migration --Ekorren 11:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I found the phonebooth thing a bit weird. Stevage 01:09, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Largest geohash and migration cover it anyway. --Ekorren 07:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Simultaneous: most people simultaneously at various hashes
Simultaneous as in at the very same moment? Timezone issue, and hardly organizable. Ekorren 11:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, how would you organise people in so many different places. Oh wait, I know...the internet! But I was actually thinking regionally - you can get quite a few graticules in one timezone. The whole eastern seabord of Australia is one timezone and is hundreds of graticules. Stevage 01:09, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
In that case it comes down to saturday 4 pm which already is a preferred time. --Ekorren 07:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Stevage 11:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Generally, record achievements are only suitable for a rather short time period. They start with ridiculously low numbers taken by people who didn't really try the achievement but just see they fulfilled the requirements by the word, slowly advancing, until someone does a real effort and sets a record so high that it takes all fun out of even trying for everyone else. At that time, the best thing would be to delete it and start all over again (which is not an option anyway). Which is why I generally do not like achievements based on beating a record, and will always argue against creating more of them. --Ekorren 07:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
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