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Use Template:Graticule to generate a map of the graticule for graticule pages.
Use Template:Meetup graticule to generate a map of a day's location for meetup/expedition pages.
All scripts and implementations written for the Geohashing algorithm should be posted at Implementations. Any discussion on an implementation's bugs should be directed to Talk:Implementations.

Golobal Hash Distribution

There are already known issues listed about gradicules nearer to the poles being smaller that gradicules nearer to the equator as well as the distribution of hash points being more dense towards the pole side of each gradicul (which is more pronounced the closer the gradicule is to a pole). The same issue applies to the location of the globalhash. Solving the issue for gradicules would be rather complex and has been deemed to be infeasible; however the globalhash issue can be solved relatively easily with trigonometry. The formula for longitude would reamin unchanged, but latitude would be calculated as arccos(2 * hash - 1) (using a degree mode for arccos; or more likely in automation converting from radians to degrees). Robartsd (talk) 2023-08-12 18:38 UTC

What Three Wordle

This is just a bit of fun. Solve three consecutive Wordle puzzles. If the three words are valid, use What Three Words to visit the location. The first three valid words are for puzzles 4, 5, and 6 giving a 3x3 metre square in Dongkou, China. This game is hard because there are zero or one locations per day. Often the consecutive Wordles are not a valid w3w location. Sourcerer (talk) 07:12, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Neat! If one is willing to step outside the bounds of 'official' [NYT] Wordle, additional locations may be gleaned by using the alternate w3w languages; one of the criticisms of w3w is that these alternate labels are used but don't 'translate', however it works for us in this case. I've not found archives of past solutions as in your link, but one could in theory still play day by day and make one's own archive (I didn't, so the w3ws linked following are reduplications of one of the listed examples for each clone):

Arlo (talk) 21:07, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

HTTPS

This site is not HTTPs, and google is now informing people that it's not secure. (unsigned comment by User:Mckaysalisbury)

I think the site should get an HTTPS certificate. Relet already asked about this eight years ago. Getting one these days does not cost anything but a little time, but I do not know who has the rights to install one. Probably the Bureaucrats, that is Randall, Joannac and Zigdon. I'll write on their talk pages, but I don't think they're active. If nobody responds, perhaps Randall will answer to an email. --Fippe (talk) 19:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

The .site has been LetsEncrypted, it seems. Arlo (talk) 14:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Proposed changes to Algorithm

Tenth Anniversary Anti-Discrimination Algorithm Upgrade

Over the years, the fairness of the Algorithm has come into question. Geohashers in different parts of the world get unequal advance notice of their future coordinates. To celebrate our tenth anniversary and as a symbolic measure, could we eliminate this source of geohashing descrimination? To level the playing field, each time zone could get 12 hours notice of tomorrow's coordinates which remain valid for 24 hours. So at noon today, local time, you'd discover tomorrow's coordinates. Now we need to find a new metric for use in the algorithm. Earthquake json data might be usable and could lead to a new San Andreas Achievement. We'd could use the data from the quake nearest to and before noon, local time. --Sourcerer (talk) 11:14, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

The current algorithm is indeed a bit unfair. The W30 rule was a good idea to amend some disadvantages players in the eastern hemisphere 1) have. However now the players in Europe have an advantage over those in America. I won't complain about that since I live in longitude 11 east, but I can see the point.

I don't think that there is a fair solution that uses a certain event (like the Dow opening) for the whole world while keeping each time zone's beginning of the day. Using different stock market indices for different regions would soften that a bit, but it would also make the calculation more complex.

A fair seed value would have to be:

published at the same local time for each time zone (well... time zone borders are not always straight lines, but this is a different problem)
distinct and verifiable
not dependent on a certain provider

Especially the last point is a huge advantage of the DJIA since there are several sources to get the value. I'm not sure if the earthquake JSON satisfies that.

1) I don't really like the phrases eastern and western hemisphere, since the division is completely arbitrary. There is no east pole and therefore no natural eastern half of the globe. But in this case I lack a better word. -- Solli (talk) 12:59, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I like the idea for geohashing that this proposal would replace the entropy generated by financial data with entropy from geological data. It would also mean that weekend/holiday hashes would not be known as far in advance since new data would be available every single day. Robartsd (talk) 2023-08-12 17:56 UTC

I think we keep the DJIA for continuity's sake but make the point valid for twenty four hours from the time of announcement. That means that at 9:30 New York time on Monday, which is 4:30 Kiritimati time on Tuesday an offset will be announced from the southwest corner of the graticule which will be valid for twenty-four hours until 9:30 New York time on Tuesday, which is 4:30 Kiritimati time on Wednesday. Yosef (talk) 15:04, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

You can't sensibly have an announcement of the co-ordinates at a given local time in each time zone. That would require 24 different announcements/data sources. There's got to be just one data source (or pedantically/arguably two, given how the current W30 rule works).

I also think that having co-ordinates only valid for (up to) 24 hours on a given date, ending at midnight, is one of the key things about geohashing. The date is part of the algorithm, so making co-ordinates valid across two different dates, even if only for 24 hours in total, seems wrong. Even to the east of W30, where co-ordinates are announced the previous day and people get more notice of the location, the location itself doesn't become valid until midnight ticks around and the date changes accordingly.

Putting those two observations together says that, for me, if a change is made, the W30 rule should be adopted globally, and today's DJIA announcement should be used to define tomorrow's co-ordinates, valid from midnight to midnight, no matter where in the world you are. I have no strong opinion on whether a change should be made or not, but if it is, this is the only option that seems sensible to me. PaintedJaguar (talk) 06:42, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Painted Jaguar you have a point, but the date would be anchored in New York, or if we wish to be respectful to Randall Munroe who created this site, Boston. In other words, we have to anchor ourselves on something somewhere, so we might as well use our origin. Yosef (talk) 12:40, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

I get your point. I just wanted to point out that every algorithm that depends on a singular event like the Dow opening results in having all coordinates available at the same point in time - and at different local times around the globe. If this is considered unfair, we would have to find another source of randomness. We could also skip the idea that hash points are valid on a given day (starting at 0:00 and endig at 24:00 local time) and make them valid, let's say from midnigt to midnight UTC or nine a.m to nine a.m. EST or whatever. But this would make Midnight Geohashes a bit awkward if they can be reached at lunch time in certain places. -- Solli (talk) 12:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree Solli. I think that the Midnight Hash is a reasonable sacrifice in order to keep everyone on the same page with timing. In other news, let's try to get Randall and some of the developers involved. I'd also like to see if we can contact Pastori and Tilley because Pastori is super active and Tilley writes his expedition pages. Yosef (talk) 09:13, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Even though I'm not really affected I see the point. I think the idea of PaintedJaguar is the best one, even though it still is kind of unfair. I don't like the idea of having the coordinates valid from the opening, but that's probably just because I'm not used to it. But it would make it possible for some people to make a double-hash on one local day, while others wouldn't have that possibility. I'll let it sink in. Also I think the tenth anniversary would be a sensible time to address the issue! RecentlyChanged (talk) 13:27, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I think the only possible change could be, like PaintedJaguar said, is to enact the W30 rule in totality. It's a lot fairer, and has the benefit of the ENTIRE world having the same point rather than the current split. RecentlyChanged, I'm not sure what you mean. The 30W rule would create the hash for the next day and would be good for the 24 hours of that day(going active at Midnight). The closest you get to a double-hash in the same graticule is what Sourcerer does a lot with his midnight runs by the -0 to 0 border...but maybe I'm not understanding your concern.

...Next thought...The current day's hash would be yesterday's opening and...yesterday's date? Hmmm...maybe there should also be a change to use Yesterday's opening and <Date-of-hash> to calculate the fractions(like what is already done on the weekend). Being in the Eastern Time Zone, I've never really paid much attention to the 30W rule. I think the biggest barrier to this change from the start(from what I've read), was that Randall wanted this to be a completely spontaneous expedition that couldn't be planned for until the day of. I feel like he has left this game to the community and we can collectively decide how to proceed. With everyone east of 30W already having a few hours to half a day to plan, this throws a wrench in the original intention anyway. Pedalpusher (talk) 20:01, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Since I was asked to comment, here are my thoughts:

- With the current rules, East of 30W there is less time during the week, but there is more time to plan the Saturday meet-up (which is arguably the most important one), so that seems like a fair compensation. Of course having done only one hash East of 30W I'm not the most qualified to have an opinion on that matter.

- How big is this issue really? Maybe someone should compute the average hash per user East and West of 30W?

- There are other properties of geohashing that arguably make it "unfair" - graticules get smaller when you go further North/further South of the Equator, so for the people in Anchorage in average the geohashes are closer than the ones in Quito.

- Remember, the 30W rule was created as an extension/precision, by the original author, and only a few days after the original announcement. Diverging too much from the original idea would be like creating a new game... Unless there is really a consensus, there is a risk of a split in the community, which is already not that large. If there is ever a vote on a revision of the algorithm, we should decide in advance of a very high threshold required to adopt the proposed change (for instance 90% in favor, as well as a certain share of all users active in the past 12 months taking part in the vote).

--Crox (talk) 22:57, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to kind of recenter everyone on what I think is important in geohashing so that I can make my argument for basing it off of a Universal time from the opening of the stock exchange.

1. Get to the hashpoint. It doesn't matter which vehicles you use, who you see there, get there.

2. Chances are that point is a place you've never been before and will open your eyes to a new view.

3. Spontaneity is key. There is a minimal amount of time to plan.

With all of this in mind I can understand applying the 30W rule for the whole world but I think that making the point valid immediately is part of what makes the challenge exciting. Nonetheless, there should be at least a 24 hour period where each point is valid.

Finally I'd like to add that for the sake of those living along the Prime Meridian I would like all hashpoints to be offset from the southwest corner of the graticule. When the east/west offset is very high the points are very far apart making it unnecessarily more difficult for those hashers. We can publish negative offsets for those in the western and southern hemisphere who are too lazy to do subtraction. - Yosef - 17-Aug-2017

As someone who actually lives about 12 km from the prime meridian, I'd say this is a complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Yes, some days my nearest hash is very far away, but I'm not going to go hashing every day anyway. Some days my luck is in and I get two hashpoints nearby. The weird goings-on in this part of the world are part of the interest of hashing, and are a very small price to pay for the simplicity of the Algorithm -- everyone has the same decimal coordinates. Please don't change that. — Benjw _{talk} 09:24, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to protest the current unfairness towards the western hemisphere with my formal PROTEST hash: 2017-08-20 42 -87 No graticule should be left without a valid hashpoint for more than 24 hours. The hash point was announced at 8:30 Chicago time on Sunday, and I reached it by 8:15 Chicago time on Monday. Yosef (talk) 18:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Nice one. What about one simple additional rule: "Each hash point is valid until the next valid hashpoint for this graticule is announced." Im just an elitist European and I don't have such problems, but I can't see why it should not be allowed to go hashing in the morning hours in certain areas. -- Solli (talk) 07:13, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Solli. How do we get proper consensus for such a change? Do we need the developers to change their techniques or can we just leave it alone? Yosef (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

I have to reject your protest for 2017-08-20 42 -87, because the coordinates for the Sunday hashes are published on 8:30 Chicago time on Friday! --GeorgDerReisende (talk) 17:12, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Understood Georg. Where do you think I should have gone for my Monday morning hashpoint before 8:30? Yosef (talk) 18:59, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

As far as I can see we have two different approaches. Step 1 would be to keep each hashpoint valid until new coordinates are published for a given graticule. To do this we just have to update some Wiki pages, but no Implementations have to be changed. Just select the cooridnates of the previous day and have a nice expedition.

However one might still consider this unfair because at 9:30 EST the new coordinates become instantly valid with zero preparation time whereas east of 30W we can prepare in advance. If we wanted to amend this we would have to make more severe changes to the algorithm. --Solli (talk) 09:15, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

For the time being we can encourage these kinds of PROTEST hashes until something gets worked out. Yosef (talk) 04:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Did you realize that in the Original Comic it says: "That date's (or the most recent) Dow opening"? Before 9:30 EST the most recent Dow opening is that of the previous (business) day. Taken literally this means that in western time zones there are two coordinates per day, one before 9:30 EST and one after. However I assume that Randall's intention was to have one set of coordinates for each day and graticule. So IMHO it makes sense to use the previous (business) day's coordinates until a new Dow Jones opening value is published, as proposed above. I'm going to add this to the Known Issues and update The Algorithm page if there are no strong opinions against it. --Solli (talk) 09:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

I am going to say no to that concerning The Algorithm. We don't want someone like Sourcerer, NWoodruff, Pedalpusher or Pastori who have all done more than one-hundred points to find out one morning that their algorithm changed. Get approval from a couple of them including GeorgDerReisende who has already expressed displeasure and then change it.

I don't get you point. Past expeditions will stay valid. And everything that is considered a valid expedition now will continue to be valid in the future. The only thing I want to change is to create the additional possibility to go hashing west of W30 before the Wall Street opens. Isn't that exactly what you wanted to promote with your protest hash? But yeah, I'll try to get feedback from the 100+ users before I edit any page. --Solli (talk) 11:27, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Wow, I never thought I'd be summoned for something like this before, and I appreciate you all value my opinion. :) For me, I believe Solli summed it up perfectly:

"Did you realize that in the Original Comic it says: "That date's (or the most recent) Dow opening"? ... Taken literally this means that in western time zones there are two coordinates per day, one before 9:30 EST and one after."

Whether you allow the carry over from the day before or calculate a 'fresh' hash before the DOW opens for the day, you will have 2 hashes available in one day. This can get confusing and much more difficult in writing up/reading the Expedition reports since the date on the report is not the same as the day you went. Because of all this, my vote on this idea/rule change is a firm and unyielding NO. I don't mind the current setup of today's rules: that it is good from when the hash is published to midnight. That keeps the dates/hash calcs very simple and easy to understand. Unfair? Somewhat, I have to wait 9.5 hours into the day for my daily hash, but I still have over 150 expeditions under these rules(and NWoodruff has over 500 in the same time timezone). Plus, I still have most of the day to plan and the entire evening to go if I'm able and it's accessible. No, we don't have Sunrise or the first Midnight Hash, I can't get a hash on the way TO work(during the week), but these aren't detrimental to the game, and it makes it that much more satisfying to get when you finally do. Yosef, as for your Protest hash, I'm sorry but like GeorgDerReisende said, that is already defined as a Retro-Hash for Sunday. That being said, if we are going to discuss a global 30W Rule, I am fully on board as, in my mind, it meets my 'simplicity' rules as well as being a lot more fair. Yes, we would slightly lose the spontaneity of it (but only West of 30W) and that is a minor negative well overbalanced by the positives of enacting such a rule. Pedalpusher (talk) 15:27, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Pedalpusher Note how I defined it. It doesn't say anywhere on the page that the expedition was considered successful. That's why I called it a protest hash and not a true hash. What is most important to me is that there will not be a moment anywhere in the world that will be without a hashpoint. That includes Australia at 1 AM. I would prefer to go by UTC so that we can have keep things sane on timezone borders, but I understand your request for simplicity. Yosef (talk) 19:49, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Yosef, I understand what you are saying, but my point was that this type of expedition is already defined as a Retro-Expedition, whether or not you make it(and your's a successful one at that since you made it). How will changing the Timezone activation make things better? What exactly am I missing here? Honestly, I will vote against anything that has local hash-times (wherever local is for you) carry over into the next day. The only solution I can currently see (and would be willing to vote for) is a Global 30W rule. In that case, at your local time Midnight, the new hash (Derived from the Dow Opening the day before and presumably the current date) would activate and be valid for 24 hours, just like it currently does in Australia and everywhere else East of the 30W line. I'm hesitant to suggest this, but do we need a Proposed Changes to the Algorithm page were someone could fully explain the rules and methods of their change and maybe a Pros and Cons section to debate the merits of each suggestion? I'm going to poke a few West Coasters that I know have been active somewhat recently and have also done a lot of hashing in the past to get a few more comments here. Pedalpusher (talk) 21:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Pedalpusher - Every fifteen degrees longitude there is a timezone change. Most of these changes happen in the ocean or at international borders, but nonetheless there are places which are corner cases particularly in the United States, Canada, and Russia. Some graticules have two time zones. There are ocean graticules that have two different dates because of the international date line. This all gets to be a little nutty, but if everyone used UTC time, then there would not be any question. We could put up a sign that would be very clear as to when the hash would become activated in your time zone. Yosef (talk) 08:55, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

I've been out of hashing for too long and just returned. Utilizing a Global 30W rule may be the easiest to implement if a change is agreed. I "missed" a point because I was way that day and was able to hit it the next morning before the DOW opened. I counted it, however, I had a IRC conversation where the general thought was my run was a Retro-Hash because of the day change. If you make it is in the eye of the beholder and usually that's the person on the expedition. If we are going to change, I think Global 30W rule is best. I also think the more productive hashers should have more of a say. If the hashing community can't come to an agreement, then the system as is should remain in place. User:Whoa Knock (talk) 03:00, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

It sounds like the only thing that can be agreed upon is make the 30W rule for the entire world. Anything more drastic would not have enough support. Yosef (talk) 10:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Has this not been summarized for formal vote yet? I am for a planetwide 30W rule change. For us in the states, any loss of the "spontaneity" requirement is balanced by actually having 24 hours to visit a geohashpoint for 7 days, not just 2. Now if only the "global" algorithm didn't produce so many poles... --Thomcat (talk) 13:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Count me in favor of a global 30W rule. I feel as though points remaining valid for a 24 hour period is more in the spirit of the game than is rigidly adhering to calender days. Mystrsyko (talk) 04:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

I have to admit that I don't see this as being that unfair, but I also live someplace where we only lose 6.5 hours a day on weekdays. Personally, if I only had the time to try make the previous day's hashpoint before work, I'd just go and mark it as a Retro, but I also live someplace where most of my expeditions end up as "No Trespassing." I think that trying to completely change the Algorithm is a bad idea. Our tools don't seem to have a lot of support behind them - I seriously doubt they'll get updated to support something new, and then we'll really have a mess on our hands. The easiest solution to my mind, which requires no changes to the tools, is to simply allow people to use the previous days coordinates until there are new ones available, which means this change will only come into play Mon-Fri local midnight until 9:30AM Eastern. My next preference, except that it requires tools to change slightly is a global 30W rule, but I somehow expect that someone will be complaining that people on the West coast get more time to prepare for the expedition than people in Europe even though everyone gets a full 24 hours to go the hashpoint. Jiml (talk) 23:13, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Jiml has an excellent point. I think I might start a page where we can keep inventory of all of our tools and how flexible they would be in the event of an algorithm change. Please add to the list as you see fit. Yosef (talk) 05:05, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Hm, the 24-hour rule sort of creates a new W30 issue. Only moves it a day! Let's keep in mind that this is not an activity where points scored should count and be flexible by judging when a hashpoint has been reached. But you have to actually reach the hashpoint within a reasonable time after it was published. And after all, the hasher has to live with the fact that (s)he cheated in order to be able to "add a point to heir total". Palmpje (talk) 14:47, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Agreed Palmpje. Someone updated my PROTEST hash to make it a successful one. I do not think that is appropriate and we should wait for consensus before that is done. - Yosef (talk)

The McKay proposal

I've always thought the way we treat it on this wiki is kind of wrong. Here's what the algorithm says: "That date's (or most recent) dow opening." So here's what I propose:

In order to qualify for being at a hash, the dow opening must be the most recent dow opening at the time you are at the hash (or for a dow opening later on that calendar day if you somehow know that)

This proposal is backwards compatible, in that I believe it'll still work for most everyone in the current rules, for at least good portion of the day, and always gives you at least 24 hours to plan at least one hash.

Examples. I currently live in California, so I follow Pacific Time. This means that for me, the Dow opens at 6:30 AM. Which means that on a Tuesday, once that dow opening is revealed. I have 24 hours to plan up to two hashes:

Today's date with the current opening
- If I choose this, I have to go before midnight, because otherwise, the date will be wrong
Tomorrow's date with the current opening
- If I chose this, I must do it before 6:30 AM tomorrow. (Jim thinks it also has to be after midnight tomorrow)

I actually like sleep so I will rarely choose the latter option, and that's convenient because the tools will work well this way today for most users?

I think it actually follows the rules, because it says "That date's (or most recent) dow opening". According to that rule at 6:29 AM, I have two choices, that day's dow opening, which I can't know yet (unless I'm Bill Gates), or the most recent dow opening, which was yesterday's. At 6:31 I only have one choice, because that day's dow opening is the most recent.

I do admit that for some people they will get their changeover happening at inopportune times, but I guess the biggest "difference" is that people for whom the dow opens in the evening can get up to two hashes a day during reasonable hours, but I don't think it's that big of a deal, and I'm the one being shorted? Am I missing something? McKay (talk) 04:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

This sounds like a reasonable approach for me, though it does require updates to our tools to use the "newly available" hashpoint. I added a few words to your description above to touch on a point I think you're in agreement on: Basically, there is only one hashpoint active at any time, but a future one might be known for planning purposes. Jiml (talk) 03:31, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes, changes would be desirable, but they wouldn't be required, unless they wanted to see the additional point? McKay (talk) 19:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I shall say straight off that I don't particularly like this solution. It is removing one point of "discrimination" (some people don't have a valid hash point at certain times) by introducing another (some people now get two hash points per day, others get one). I am in favour of solving the first, but not at the expense of the second.

Who doesn't get two in my new proposal? I think the number is zero, but I may not be thinking of all cases. McKay (talk) 19:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Hash o'clock is 14:30 GMT (in the winter, at least). Australia's Northern Territory is in the GMT+09:30 timezone and does not use daylight savings time, so hash o'clock there coincides with midnight for half the year. There might be others for parts of the year. But in any case, some places (Aus and NZ particularly, but also to a lesser extent the west coast of North America) would have one hashpoint for a very short time during the night, and a second one for the entire rest of the day. Other places (particularly in Europe) would have two hashpoints that change over around lunchtime. To me (in Europe) that seems more confusing than the current "one hashpoint each day" state of things, and would seem to be an avoidable consequence of changing the rules to fix the "no hashpoint for some of the day" problem that this discussion was intending to fix. — Benjw _{talk} 14:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

[Edit: I no longer support this suggestion, or probably any solution involving rules depending on timezones, because of later discussion. I leave it here simply for historical completeness. — Benjw _{talk} 15:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)] My preferred solution would be: "At midnight (local time) at the beginning of each day, a new hashpoint comes into play. Its coordinates are calculated using the Algorithm along with the current date and the most recent Dow opening. This hashpoint remains the current hashpoint for as long as the date remains the same." So a new hashpoint comes into play at midnight local time everywhere. It is calculated using what, at the time, is the most recent Dow opening (thus keeping as far as possible within the spirit of the original idea). This hashpoint lasts for 24 hours everywhere (or 23/25, if daylight savings time changes!). Everyone will be able to calculate this hashpoint before it comes into play (or, at the very least, at the instant it comes into play). Each location on Earth has exactly one current hashpoint at all times. Thoughts? — Benjw _{talk} 21:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

While that may be your favorite, it doesn't seem to be relevant to my new proposal, and it also introduces substantially new rules. McKay (talk) 19:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Crox has pointed out the problem with it, below. I'm not sure why it's substantially different and/or not relevant -- it's simply another variation on exactly what data is fed to the algorithm and how long the result is valid for. — Benjw _{talk} 14:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

[Generally, I'm not in favour of any change at all, see also my comments above.] This solution appears interesting at a first glance, but that would mean the different implementations would need to integrate timezone databases, complete with DST data etc. Also, there are many graticules that contain areas within different time zones. Take for example 43,131. Half of it is in China (UTC+8), the other half in Russia (here UTC+10). This means in Winter (and only in Winter, neither China nor Russia have DST), hash o'clock happens at 22:30 local time in the Chinese part of the graticule, but at 00:30 local time in the Russian part of the graticule. Which DOW value do you consider to calculate the coordinates, which are valid for the whole graticule? the 30W rule is MUCH easier, and still it takes quite some effort to implement it correctly... Btw, this is precisely why the 30W rule was defined that way nearly 10 years ago, see the discussion here: Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1#Europe_Time_Zones_problem. --Crox (talk) 03:38, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to start the hashpoint according to UTC. That way, we don't have to mess with graticules being split between hashpoints. If we can't do that then at least we should be lenient with people who are in inconvenient graticules. (unsigned comment by user:Yosef)

Crox, that's a beautiful example of a problem that I hadn't considered! Well done for finding it. I'll think again. — Benjw _{talk} 09:20, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I firmly reject this proposal. Timezones are a nightmare for programmers, don't bring them into the algorithm. Crox brought up an excellent specific point. Additionally, hash o'clock is 15:30 for me. This is a time when I could be in the middle of an expedition, and it would be bad if the goal changes then.

I recognize that people living in 180W-30W graticules have a disadvantage over 30W-180E graticule users. I'd accept change, but not in this form. Finally, any change needs to be supported by Randall, not only the community. --Fippe (talk) 13:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Being a programmer who has had to deal with timezones a lot in the past, I completely agree with Fippe on their point about them being a nightmare —the current status quo regarding time of hash receipt is tricky enough, but manageable —(09:30 EST/EDT) is still a single point in time across the whole globe after all so everyone gets their coördinates at the same time, just not at the same wall-clock time. Saxbophone (talk) 13:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Graticules without weekday geohashes

There are several areas in the world that never have weekday geohashes. They are located in the east of the 180th longitude, but west of the date line. Here's a map. I'm not just talking about water here, the land areas exist and some of them are populated considerably:

Russia: Chukotka and eastern Wrangel Island
Kiribati: Phoenix Islands and Line Islands
Tuvalu: No land areas, but waters east of Nukulaelae Island
Tokelau: completely
Samoa: completely
Tonga: completely
France: Wallis and Futuna
Fiji: The eastern part
New Zealand: Kermadec Islands and Chatham Islands
Antarctica: Partially

Hash o'clock in these areas is a few hours after midnight on the next day. This means that geohashes are only reachable on days that the NYSE is not open: Saturdays, Sundays, and Dow Holidays. The W30-Rule does not protect these areas since they are in the western hemisphere.

How do we approach this? I don't know about any geohashers from these areas. The only graticules with pages are Chatham Island and Pitt Island, and they seem to be inactive. Is this a problem that should be solved, or one that can be ignored? --Fippe (talk) 10:51, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

I guess it's a slightly grey area, owing to the inexact wording of the algorithm, but the Dow *does* have an opening price on the desired day, even though the local time in New York is the previous day. You'd use the date in your graticule with the opening price for the Dow at whatever point on your local date the Dow opens. Example: It's Wednesday 2 February in a graticule in the GMT+13 time zone (which I think is 18 hours ahead of New York). From the point of view of that graticule, the Dow would open at 03:30. At that time point, it would be 09:30 on Tuesday 1 February in New York, but that doesn't matter. To calculate our hashpoint, we would use the current date in our timezone (2 February) and the value of that Dow opening.

I think this is acceptable under the current wording for graticules west of -30 longitude: "if there is no opening price for the Dow on the desired day..." because either (a) there isn't an opening price: the Dow opens after the desired day has ended, and we therefore use the previous or most recent trading day -- which we'll obtain at 03:30 when it's announced; or (b) there is an opening price, and it's the one that happens at 03:30 regardless of the difference in dates between New York and our current graticule.

The other way to approach it would be to say that graticules west of the dateline are defined for algorithm purposes as being "east of -30 longitude". Then the rule would be to use the current local date and the most recent Dow opening at midnight at the start of the day, which for our example graticule would be the Dow opening on New York date Monday 31 January.

Either way, it's not a problem which is likely to occur often (it's been ignored for the last ten years), and I'd be happy with any approach to a solution, as long as it was reasonably thought through and didn't take the mick. I think both of the suggestions above are reasonable and would be acceptable locally. — Benjw _{talk} 09:16, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

As an addendum to the above, it's just occurred to me that the date line does not always conveniently follow graticule boundaries, and therefore whichever approach we take, there are always going to be some difficulties where using the algorithm west of the date line generates one hashpoint and using the algorithm east of the date line generates a different hashpoint for the same graticule at the same time. This is an artefact of the algorithm using the local date as one of the parameters used to generate the hashpoint. — Benjw _{talk} 09:21, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the W30 rule should apply eastward to the international date line rather than the antimeridian (or simply accept the proposal to always use a prior date's DJIA opening price everywhere). Robartsd (talk) 2023-08-12 17:47 UTC

Older Topics

Organization / automation questions

So, we now have date pages (2008-06-07), date-bound templates for the day's expedition images ({{Expedition Images/2008-06-07}}), categories for the day's meetups (Category:Meetup on 2008-06-07 -- not all of which have been 'created', even though most if not all are in use). We also have the "Recent and Upcoming Coordinates" and "Gallery of Recent Expeditions" sections on the front page. There are likely other daily-maintenance-type things I'm not aware of (archiving? Creation of the supercategories like Category:Meetup in 2008-06?).

I'd be more than willing to work on automating some/all of the above, if people are interested -- I know tjtrumpet2323 mentioned that he doesn't mind doing the manual update of the front-page coordinates, and that it would likely be handled by a template eventually (once the mediawiki daily coords implementation was done) anyway. I've been playing with api.php a bit recently, and most of the automation is reasonably simple. But I don't want to step on any toes (explicitly including rpm's, since I'm not sure how kindly he'll take to people running bots against the wiki).

Additionally: It would be trivial, once images are categorized by meetup date (very few are currently) to randomly swap out the pictures that have been picked for the day's Expedition Images. But this introduces the question of whether a second (editorial, not automatic) category should be created for "best of the day" to use as the pool (assuming the consensus is "automation is good", rather than "keep it editorial, like it already is"), instead of pictures like Image:2008-06-01_37_-121-Tapin-2.JPG.

Thoughts?

--Tapin 20:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see a lot more automation done, and was considering writing my own bots to do some of it. But considering my other workload, I'm not sure when that will happen. One thing I'd be worried about is creating pages just to fill in the dates, without actually having content for them. Your comment about editorial content also stands - any bots should be willing to accept imposed content. Zigdon 21:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The main reason pages such as Template:Expeditions/2008-06-12 exist is to allow inclusion on pages such as 2008-06. Now that the date pages pretty much only contained templated-in content, they're practically unnecessary. However, from a template-coding standpoint, Template:Date nav is easier to code when the page titles are simple, like 2008-06-12. Does anyone know if there's a way of transcluding (templating) pages in the Main namespace? (I have more thoughts on this section's topic as a whole, but have to leave for now.) --Tim P 15:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

You can transclude anything, not just templates. Use {{:Main Page}} to transclude the main page, for example. Mike.lifeguard 00:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Mike.lifeguard. I didn't realise the colon notation extended to transclusion. I think when I create the date pages for the weekend in a few hours' time, I'll just create YYYY-MM-DD pages and not bother with Template:Expeditions/YYYY-MM-DD. I'd be willing to go back through the three weeks of pages and move data around... as well as to clean up the includes... seeing how I did 90% of them to begin with. Any thoughts? --Tim P 06:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This is a year-old question but I've never seen this answer given, and I think it might be a good compromise between automatic selection of unsuitable images and frequent adventurers hogging the front page. When uploading pictures, add something like a Nominated for front page category to your showpiece picture, and the automation randomly displays no more than one such nominated picture from each expedition for any given date. -Robyn 15:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Google Maps API

Per The Register's article, access to the Google Maps API is going to cost money. Is there already a plan for how this site will handle that? Get Randall to beg? Find some sympathetic geohashers who are also Google employees? Both?

--UncleOp 14:00, 27 October 2011 (EDT)

Automated Transclusion Implemented

I did some automating/optimising stuff over the weekend. The Template:Expeditions/YYYY-MM-DD pages are to be completely discontinued from 17 June, as meetups are now included on the date pages themselves (YYYY-MM-DD, e.g., 2008-06-16). I even went back and copied stuff over for continuity's sake. As far as the image gallery templates go, I automated a template/script to show the current (UTC) day and the three prior for use on Main Page. It uses the new syntax {{Expedition Images|YYYY-MM-DD}} which includes Template:Expedition Images/YYYY-MM-DD (note the slash), along with the appropriate header (based on page context) if the template exists, or a "start this gallery"-type message if it doesn't. It also provides a "direct edit" link to the template from the date pages. --Tim P 05:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts? You may note that I opted not to provide a "direct edit" link in instances where {{Expedition Images|YYYY-MM-DD}} are transcluded on Main Page, more so out of fear of the page's visibility than anything. I suppose that most potential spambots would give up on the write-protected page and not follow any "direct edit" link we'd put right on that page, but you never know. I would be perfectly willing to put such a link back into the template if consensus deems wise (i.e., people agree here) or if convention deems necessary (i.e., people get fed up with hunting for an edit link). My initial fears could be totally ridiculous, and I'm totally willing to admit that. --Tim P 05:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I like it very much, awesome effort sir. The 'add your own photo' is pretty clearly findable on the YYYY-MM-DD pages. If that is not enough, then a comment in the source on the Main_Page directing people appropriately should be the next step IMHO. See how it fares? :) --Nemo 11:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Only current thought now... the automatic 'start the gallery' link means the previous days gallery (with the heklpful comments) don't get copied over... I wonder if people are just more likely to blindly start a gallery now rather than copy the comment hints too? I don't think think content can be automated into there though can it? May not be a problem anyway, wait and see? --Nemo 11:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

This isn't a show stopper, but I just discovered a timing point. We here in the east side of the 30W rule have pics for today already uploaded (8:20am local time, 17th June), but it's still 40minutes before UTC rolls over to the 17th and the frontpage gets the 'create a gallery for the 17th' type link. No biggie, it just limits our bragging rights! ;P --Nemo 22:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Because of the limited number of morning-time meetups, I figured that 00:00 UTC was still a reasonable time to switch over because, as Template:Recent Images says, it's "reasonably mid-day for the easternmost time zones," i.e., 12:00 or 13:00 in New Zealand depending on DST. Not to mention, it's immensely easier to program a switch at 00:00 UTC than at any other time on this wiki. Photos uploaded to the designated gallery before 00:00 UTC still get to be at the top of the images section for a full 24 hours, so yeah, it really isn't a big deal. --Tim P 18:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

yup. I was just being needlessly pedantic. ;) However, I do have a thought - thuogh don't know if it's possible. At the moment it displays the last 4 days, but in fact it seems more often than not, when I see it the currentday gallery is still waiting for the first image - so we only see three days. Can you check for the existance of the CURRENTDAY gallery - and if it doesn't exist, then also include CURRENTDAY -4 days. That way we get 4 days of actual pictures at all times (which I think works best, imho 3 is a little too small a showcase through the week). The -4days gallery automatically rolls off then not at 00:00UTC, but when the currentday gallery is created... :) --Nemo 00:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

DONE and IMPLEMENTED. See Template:Recent Images for specifics. Great idea, Nemo. --Tim P 03:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

~~There is a problem with the pages that show links to the expeditions by month: 2008-08 --Hermann 20:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)~~

re-organise the frontpage

I'd like to propose that now that geohashing is a few months mature in the wider internet, that the need to explain what it is in detail on the top of the front page of the wiki is diminished.

My humble opinion is that most people hitting the front wiki now are familiar with geohashing, or if new (less likely after that post-announcement rush), are more likely to be able to find detailed info after an initial introduction.

So how about a frontpage reorganise with this all in mind? Currently, the front page TOC looks like

What is this?
How it works
1. Official xkcd meetups
2. Unofficial invitations
Active Graticules
Implementations
Recent and Upcoming Coordinates
Gallery of Recent Expeditions
Known Issues
FAQ
Related Projects

I propose that it be reformatted to something closer to these lines...

What is this?
Who, Where, When and How?
Recent and Upcoming Coordinates
Gallery of Recent Expeditions
FAQ

In this layout, 'how it works', 'official' and 'unofficial', 'active graticules' and 'implementations' would all be summarised to one smaller section of 'who, where, when and how'. Known issues should be linked merely as a FAQ question (maybe the first one). Finally, 'Related Projects' would be a link to, rather than inclusion of, the community portal.

It'd probably be worth mocking up an actual example, but not for me at 1am... :)

Further thoughts? (obviously what I'm proposing is a rather major change to the wiki navigation, so please, nobody make any such changes till there has been a chance for fair objections to be discussed. --Nemo 15:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I do think that much of the boilerplate can be cut down and/or farmed out to links, e.g., the FAQ (though I haven't done that in my prototype, it could certainly be added). Quite frankly, I think that just about everything static on Main Page should be transcluded anyway, if it's not going to change much. That way, people wouldn't have to deal with the formatting code on any new Main Page.

I'd been thinking of this for a while, and have a Wikipedia-like prototype (with a tad bit of out-of-date content) at User:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page (actually most of the code is taken straight from their Main Page). Please leave comments on my prototype at its talk page, while leaving comments on the general idea of reorganisation here. Thanks! --Tim P 15:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Having only heard positive feedback thusfar, if I hear no further discussion, I intend to replace Main Page with an up-to-date User:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page on Friday 11 July at some time between 13:00 and 16:00 UTC. If you have any suggestions for improvements to the layout of the prototype, please let me know on its talk page. --Tim P 03:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

What stopped this happening? Your proposed front page looks awesome, I hope you implement it soon. --Kieran 10:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I think there were problems with the server being slow at the time. I might go back through and try to merge the information from the current Main Page with my sandbox version, and re-propose the change. But I don't think that's really quite necessary anymore. --Tim P 02:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

problem with iPhone version

Here in Lisbon, Portugal, the iPhone version always gives the same coordinates in the midle of the ocean:

LAT: 38.557176 LONG: -9.228286

Does this happens to someone else, in some other place?

Yes, this also happens on my iPhone - Scottkuma 14:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I have been using the iPhone app to attempt to geohash over the past week whilst away on holidays with no internet access, but have just discovered that this app almost always yields a completely different set of co-ordinates to the Peeron version online. Can anyone shed any light on this? --CJ 22:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Degrees of Separation

I meet geohashers from my graticule and nearby ones, and they meet geohashers from ones near them in the other direction, and so on. It would be cool if there were a tool to see how many degrees of separation existed between any two geohashers. Just an idea. -Robyn 19:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It would probably be pretty close to actual physical "degrees" of separation between graticules, unless you have a lot of people travelling! --Tim P 04:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I know of geohashers from two North American graticules heading to Germany, a German one gong to Chile and another German one who regularly goes to Finland. Maybe it's about your physical separation from Germany. :-). -Robyn 04:33, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

And one who went to Germany recently :) Go intercontinental geohashers! --Thomcat 13:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

If you'll excuse the necro of this subject, as I'm trying to get used to the community I've just joined, this basically sounds like it follows Small World theory (see The Other Wiki, although it's a bit lacking of the diagrams than I'd have hoped would have been there). Localised cliques (largely groupings internal to a single graticule, but with some contact with direct neighbours), but a few long-distance connections between 'hub representatives': i.e. those who have had occasion to travel to other places and opportunity to join in an elsewhere's local groupings. Via the latter, anyone who isn't by circumstance a purely solo geohasher (or yet to break their duck) is likely to need a very low number of links to be connected by a (not necessarily chronological) sequence of physical meetings to just about anyone else who isn't working solo. Especially after a couple of years or more. And I reckon that if nobody has yet gone through and parsed the entire archive of meetlogs to at least track which Wiki-users have met which other Wiki-users, and drawn up some sort analysis or even just a plain linkage map (drawing lines between stated or presumed 'home' locations), somebody has been missing a trick. We could, of course, find groupings, even overlapping worldwide sets of groupings, who have managed to geohash without making any such form of contact-by-proxy between the various sets. If so, we may need to continue a bit longer (or allow for those that have gone inactive for one of many possible reasons), but eventually there should arise a single net containing the majority of us. --Monty 16:54, 28 January 2011 (EST)

There is the Meetup_graph which, while manually updated, performs a similar function. --mykaDragonBlue [- i have no sig -] 17:03, 28 January 2011 (EST)

Geohashing around the world

I am about to go backpacking in Europe for a couple of months and I have been pondering as to how best Geohash around the world.

My first thought is that I will be flying half way around the world and I figure that there must be some chance of flying over a hash point! Can anyone think of a way I could log my journey and check it against the graticules? Or is there another way of doing it?

If you have a GPS that's only a GPS - so, no phone or other device with a sender - the airline will probably allow you to operate it on the plane. You could then check the tracklog against the actual coordinate fractions. But do ask, because the stewards may mistake it for a phone and cause trouble on the way. And don't forget the fractions will change when crossing the 30W line.

Of course, if you don't tell anybody, you might just log the whole flight. It works best with an external antenna (so that you can turn it right face up) sticking out of your front seat pocket, close to the window. see -> http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=44569 -- relet 13:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows if my GPS will work in Europe or if I need to download something else to make it work? It is a Garmin 60.

The only technical differences between an american version and an european version of a Garmin GPS are the maps included (if any) and, with some models, the language support. Your GPS will need some time to recalibrate when first switched on after the flight but that's all of it. There are plenty of people in Germany who use american versions, as until a few months ago Garmin sold them much cheaper in the US than here.

Thank you, and I am look forward to finding random spots overseas! Kate 12:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

If you know your plans long enough in advance, don't forget to announce them - there might be a chance for a real meetup :) --Ekorren 12:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. -- relet 13:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

When I fly, I get the coordinates of the day and then just keep updating the number before the decimal point to see if I'm going to hit the next one. You won't be allowed to use your electronic GPS receiver for takeoff and landing, but in cruise, you can see if it will work. It may or may not. (I sit in the front and have a wider view of the sky). If it has a mode to record tracks you could painstakingly go through the data afterwards, but the chance of getting right on a point is pretty small. Unless, that is, you meet the flight crew before hand and manage to sell them on the geohashing concept. Just make sure you're not misinterpreted as trying to hijack the plane. "Take this plane to N23°03'59.29", W82°15'20.45"!" -Robyn 12:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, Cuba! I think I'll be in serious trouble if the flight from Sydney to London ends up there!! Kate 13:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Your GPS will receive satellite signals and calculate position anywhere in the world (it will take a while to figure it out after travelling so far, though) but if it shows roads and points of interest on the screen, and you use those, you may need to download local maps for it.

Edit conflict -- someone else has already answered while I was typing, but I'll add this anyway. -Robyn 12:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The chance of getting a hashpoint in random flight is not that small for Kate. The 10 arc seconds rule for an air geohash leads to a 1:360 chance for every graticule crossed. From Sydney to e.g. London it is 150° longitude and 85° latitude, i.e. the chance of reaching a hashpoint is more than 50% on the flight. (It could be >95% if enough people would support my proposal here, because I've been having the GPS-logger-on-a-plane-idea for a long time. /end advertising). - Danatar 13:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm back from over seas, but I found that my GPS did not work at all. I tried it in the UK, in France, Germany, all over Europe, in cities and in the country and it couldn't find any satellites. Perhaps there was an international button I needed to press? It has worked perfectly back in Australia again--Kate 20:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh noes! I am quite curious about possible explanations. -- relet 20:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The only explanation I could think of is that it failed to do a cold restart. When travelling for more than a few hundred km with a switched-off GPS, it needs to reinitialize from start like when first switched on. There's a technical reason for that based in the kind of signal the satellites send. In such a case, my old GPS (a first generation Garmin Etrex) first seems to find no satellites (it actually tries to get rid of some supposed measuring error), then, after several minutes of no fix, notices that something doesn't sum up from the saved values and asks whether I moved for a longer distance. If I reply with "yes", it forgets everything and starts reinitialization. Maybe you just didn't wait long enough and switched it off again before it could adapt itself to Europe? --Ekorren 20:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

No, good try, but that can't be it- I left it turned on for 2 hours in the outskirts of London one day (and it was 'searching' the whole time. --Kate 21:43, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Map links

Lately, the map links always seem to come up showing Massachusetts, no matter what place the links were intended to go to. Dtobias 06:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

IIRC I heard something about Google changing their API, and no one has fixed the calculator yet. --The ru 08:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Main page restructure

Right now (January 2009) we're rearranging some of the "static" pages, including the main page. It might seem a bit confusing at first, but we think the end result will be an improvement for both new users and regulars. If you disagree with anything we've done, post here, join #geohashing or just change it for the better! --The ru 15:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the main page rearrange, but I don't think the quotes (except maybe the one about enjoying it pointlessly) and the hall of amazingness belong in How it Works. Maybe a highlights page off the main page? -Robyn 08:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'd like to see the quotes (randomly rotating,either auto or manually) on the front page, in the very top section under "welcome to the geohashing wiki" as they really give a feel for the game. Any thoughts? -- UnwiseOwl 01:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Auto doesn't look like it's going to happen (discussion is on my talk page). It'll at least make people laugh at how insane we all are. --joannac 02:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

That's enough for me. Implemented. -- UnwiseOwl 02:44, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

My Vision of the Future

I'm poking around today, putting categories on photos, linking expeditions to their proper graticule and user pages, and creating expedition pages from rough notes on graticule pages. Some people don't want to do all this post expedition, and I don't really blame them. I envision an expedition upload form that does all this automatically. You tell it the date and graticule of the expedition and the names of the participants, you give it a list of pictures to upload and fill in the text of the report, then boom, everything is linked and categorized. You could enter all your expedition text on the upload form, or you could go back and edit the graticule, user or expedition pages the normal way. As you uploaded your photographs there could even be a checkbox to 'nominate this photo for the main page gallery'. If fewer than 4/8/12 photos were so nominated all would display, and if more, they could be chosen randomly, or weighted for users or graticules that hadn't had a photo in the gallery lately.

Is this possible? Is this an incredible amount of work? -Robyn 21:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I like your vision! It takes me forever to upload all the things and get all the links right. Then lovely people still have to come along behind me and clean up! --Kate 21:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think a wiki is not set up for that kind of thing - the whole point of a wiki is that you can edit every little bit of it. Maybe someone can write a front-end page that will generate everything in proper wikicode format, which you can then cope and paste? I'm not sure if wiki code allows such interactivity.

It's a simple enough website to write - I could probably do it if I didn't have a report due soon. --joannac 21:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh I didn't want to limit anyone's ability to edit every little thing. It's just a front-end indeed that I wanted. Copy and paste would do one page. -Robyn 22:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

You want a template. Like perhaps {{expedition}}. Anthony 21:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Template:Expedition is definitely heading along the path towards that future. It replaces what generic cut and paste text, but the template still doesn't cross reference the expedition, and the template isn't the path of least resistance for the new geohasher who wants to show off his or her expedition without doing all that wiki stuff. Or the old geohasher who wants to upload the stuff and go to bed after a five hour expedition. I'm the one who harps on this and I forgot to link some of my expeditions into their respective graticule pages. It's a lot to do after biking or wading through swamps all day. Also while Template:Expedition is remarkably easy to use, at first glance it appears to be something complicated you have to know what to do with. I'm not sure a new geohasher would really start with it. I've not caught many using it (you can tell when people are using it, because the first save creates weird categories) who aren't experienced geowiki users. -Robyn 22:10, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I suppose it is technically possible, although I am already in my pyj... er... I mean, it could be done, yes. But getting it all to function reliably (have a remote website upload an image to the wiki, stuff like that) and wrap it in an HTML form that's simple enough not to scare off newbies, but also flexible enough so anyone other than newbies would want to use it... that's going to take a lot of work, and I guess it would still be used only very rarely. Also, graticule and user pages don't have a standardised layout, so the envisioned Geohash Expedition Report Wizard would have to guess where to put in the links. The template isn't very useful either, imo... I just reuse the wikicode from a previous expedition. If newbies can't be bothered to read and follow the excellent expedition writeup guidelines, I think I don't want to read their reports ;-) --dawidi 22:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought that it would hurl the links into a standardly named section. On graticule pages and userpages where no one cared they would just stay there, and where people cared they would rearrange them according to their preferences. I might not want to read their reports, but I'd like to have easily findable evidence that they went. -Robyn 23:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

It could even be implemented in some kind of {{auto expedition}} Template. What I am thinking of is to extend Template:Expedition with some pointers to the pages where you would like to cross-link your expedition. They would appear as dead red links, until you actually edit them. -- relet 23:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah! Or normal blue/purple links if they exist. That's in line with my vision. -Robyn 23:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm so confused...

This is a great idea, but I'm confused. How do people meet up when everyone's coords are different? Is there one specific location for each graticule that is used each time? Also, is there a calculator somewhere I can use?

The fractional part of everyone's coordinates are the same - that means that people in an area of 1 degree latitude x 1 degree longitude can meet up. That's what we call a graticule. There's a map which shows the graticules and the hash for any given date here. Just zoom to your area and click - a pink square should show up with the location for today. It's the same for everyone in this area. HTH, -- relet 09:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

New User Comments

Wade says he finds the wiki very confusing. He wants My Home Graticule to be a navigation box link, with the home graticule set in User preferences. It's actually incredibly diffiult for a new user to answer the question, "is anyone doing anything in my city on Saturday?" Try it, knowing nothing, and just clicking on links that look promising. Is there a way to have any expedition for today or a future date with the Expedition planning category to automatially be linked to the current events page? -Robyn 05:34, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

You could link to the Category:Expedition Planning on Current Events. Unfortunately, you can't include categories into the page text itself. -- relet 19:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately that category is often dominated by planned but never attended meetups, so would not give a good picture. It's not so bad now, as Joannac just did a cleanout, but definitely wasn't the clean "what's going on in my neighbourhood?" answer he wanted. -Robyn 04:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I didn't clean out many planning expedition. They're all sitting there pending further discussion. Also, it's not ingrained for people to actually create a page before they go, yet. --joannac 06:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

This problem has been addressed with the Current events option in the navigation bar at left. Now planned expeditions all over the world are automatically listed in one place. Comments from newcomers about improving wiki navigation are still welcome. -Robyn 02:11, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd still like to see a home graticule link that is settable in the preferences...my current solution is that I have my home grat link on my user page. I go through there rather than typing Buffalo in the search bar...I'm going to claim it's faster, but I'm probably a bit lazy too. Pedalpusher (talk) 21:58, 23 October 2014 (EDT)

Coordinate History

Just curious if there's a page that lists every official Geohash coordinate since the start (2008-05-21)? If so, it'd be neat if that page could then be templated to a particular graticule, and going further, taking all those points and mapping them to see where every Geohash in your graticule has occurred. I'm pretty sure I could create the list of official coordinates as well as a templated version to add the graticule and corresponding map links, but I wouldn't know how to take all the coordinates and map them into one view of the graticule. Thoughts? --Wenslayer 05:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Argh, sorry, just found Talk:Main Page/Archive 3#Complete list of historical locations including link to Geohashing historical data [amipsychic.net]. --Wenslayer 06:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Check it out: User:Wenslayer/KMLGenerator. --Wenslayer 08:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

IRC Chat

Anyone think it would be a good idea to drop this link: Join Geohashing chat now in the main page? Mibbit is an irc chat over http, doesn't require a java applet to be installed etc.

Nooo! I use that link all the time to get to chat and I would be very confused if it all of a sudden I wasn't in Chatzilla. I think most people who are likely to want to use IRC chat wouldn't want their default client overridden. Maybe change the one in Help:Contents. -Robyn 19:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually i was thinking of having the link in addition to the existing one, so that people who don't have an irc client can join easily. --Xore 19:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I am on the fence about that. Most people who know what IRC is will either already have their clients set up, or want to use their own. Since it isn't very descriptive about what an "IRC channel" is, it might be better to leave it alone. However, I think we do want the geohashing Main Page to be as user (read non-geek) friendly as possible, so having a link to mibbit might be beneficial. Maybe a compromise: Join #geohashing chat on foonetic now or with your own IRC client. --aperfectring 20:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

#geo#ing :) --Xore 20:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Join #geohashing chat on foonetic with your own IRC client or using mibbit. -- relet 20:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC) (suggesting this order of things)

The order doesn't matter to me, but someone who doesn't know about IRC probably doesn't know what "mibbit" is. Maybe "using your web browser" instead? --aperfectring 20:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

test

someone with access to the wiki backend is welcome to replace the timestamp generator with something that will create a smaller random number --Xore 20:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

No worries about needing a smaller random number, the guestXXXX nicks aren't really any shorter, if I remember rightly. --aperfectring 20:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Until we get a more geohashing-centric nick system working completely, I have included the generic link on Template:Getting_Started and Help:Contents --aperfectring 23:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

How about this? -- relet 08:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I tried it 3 times and got different ones each time, so it looks good to me. Out of curiosity, how many different options are there? --aperfectring 12:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The YAWL wordlist used contains 264097 entries. And they all look good with geo-. Well, mostly. -- relet 12:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well that might be enough for now, but if we start getting all popular, you might want to think about increasing that. <.< >.> Note: If 500 people click that link, there is an approx. 50% chance that two will have get the same nick, assuming that the selection is sufficiently random, and no type of exclusion list is used. My main concern, though, is if "people" is included in that list. That could prove disastrous for my typical greeting and farewell. --aperfectring 13:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposed update to 1st sentences.

Proposal:

On the main page, I'd like to move the sentence "Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator" from its current location above the random quote to being the first sentence in the "What is this?" section.

Discussion:

I occasionally direct geohashing n00bs to the wiki as a way of introduction. Right before sending the email, I follow the link as part of my final editing process, to "get the reader's experience." Every single time, I get to the wiki main page, and my eye immediately gravitates to the headline "What is this?" and I begin reading a section that is just a teeny-bit too "jump right in to the technical bits." I think that the sentence that is currently above the quote-banner, "Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator" would serve better as the opening sentence to the "What Is This" section.

In my proposal, the front page layout would be changed from:

Main Page

Welcome to the Geohashing Community Wiki. Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator. Geohashing was brought to you by the xkcd webcomic.

(Random Quote)

What is this?

Every day, the algorithm generates a new set of coordinates... [etc.]

to:

Main Page

Welcome to the Geohashing Community Wiki. Geohashing was brought to you by the xkcd webcomic.

(Random Quote)

What is this?

Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator. Every day, the algorithm generates a new set of coordinates... [etc.]

The next time I'm struck by this oddity, I'll check back and, if there are no objections, I'll make the change. edit: forgot to sign: Ted 17:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I've struggled a little with this as well. Support --Wenslayer 17:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Glad someone else is thinking about the new user. This never struck me, but now that I read it, yeah support. -Robyn 17:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Support definitely. I would also scratch "Community" and "i.e.". Juventas 05:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Done. I think it's much more approachable, now. Thanks for the support. Ted 06:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Damn does that ever look better. Thank you, Ted. -Robyn 06:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Juventas' Server Configuration Wishlist

Allow uploading of kml/kmz files. Small, harmless, big potential.

My guess is that the kml file could be interpreted as HTML by the browser, allowing malicious code to be interpreted? We've had this before, can't be bothered searching atm. Will update later. --joannac 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Interpreted as XML. Another user who was also interested in this looked into it and figured it was safe. I'm not a XML security expert. Juventas 07:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Right. So now you have to convince the admin :) --joannac 07:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Under "My Preferences" > "Watchlist" > "Add pages I...", enable as default. Most of the time I ask a question on a new image talk page, I get no response.

Not doable by me. Also unlikely to be done - users should have to sign up for email spam, not get it by default. --joannac 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

That would require "E-mail me when a page I'm watching is changed" to be enabled. I thought this was disabled by default. Juventas 07:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

It is disabled by default. I don't see the point of making this change then. --joannac 07:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Under "My Preferences" > "Search" > enable all as default. The search is useless without it. I experienced much frustration with this as a new user looking for information.

I agree, but see further down. --joannac 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Install the CAPTCHA thing so the leaders of this wiki can use their time for better things.

Also agree, see further down. --joannac 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Address the recent intermittent performance problems. I'm guessing we're getting a free ride, but I'd like to hear options.

The wiki/fora is maxing out the CPUs on the server. The sysad is deciding whether to move to a new server, add more boxes, etc. This means that backend changes will be put on hold until he decides. --joannac 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

...other things I'm forgetting, feel free to jump in.

Thanks to all those who have written bots to manage so many other things. Juventas 06:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

That's all server-side and IMO all worthy. For the captcha issue, you can weigh in here. -Robyn 06:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Here's a stop gap measure. Change/improve anything. -Robyn 08:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Offer of hosting

Hello, I'm davidc, geocacher, geohasher. You've doubtless met me on IRC already. Recently the wiki seems really slow - in fact today it was so bad, it was giving MySQL errors about concurrent transactions.

I'd like to offer my assistance. I own Sargasso Networks (www.sargasso.net, I won't link it here) and I have a couple of quad xeon servers dedicated to what I call "community hosting", aka "things I'm interested in and want to support". I would be very happy to host the wiki so it's off the xkcd forum server and has sufficient CPU power and bandwidth. We're a professional ISP with quality bandwidth etc, no Cogent etc blah.

As an aside, I also just registered www.geohashing.org and www.geohashing.org/[whatever] now redirects to wiki.xkcd.org/geohashing/[whatever]. This would provide an easy migration path if you want to move it to another server (since the same redirect can be set up in the reverse direction).

Let me know here, on my talk page, or on IRC. --davidc 22:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Support -- thanks for offering, davidc! --Wenslayer 23:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

That's a big offer. Afaik, we generally have only voted on things involving wiki editing. I would think something like a server move would be entirely up to the administrators. My primary concerns would be whether the new hosting would have substantially better performance, and what would happen in the long term (say if davidc was unable/unwilling to continue). Juventas 01:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's up to the admins (who I'm not sure I've met or even know about, except joannac). From previous mediawiki installations on our network, I'm sure the new servers are up to the task (each server is 4xXeon-E5430 2.66Ghz, 4GB, RAID1+0 SATA, Gig-E uplinks to our 10-GE backbone) - a trial can be arranged easily enough anyway if desired. As far as long-term, I understand that's always a concern but let me say we've hosted things like Freenode since 2000, and my personal priority is always to ensure continuity, even though we haven't really used Freenode in the last 4-5 years. (As with other arrangements, staff would be given access to our NOC helpdesk). Let me say now also that my desire isn't control or anything, but simply to improve the performce for myself and others. I wouldn't request to be a wiki admin: the existing admins would have full ssh access to the wiki account. --Davidc 01:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

So, why is it slow lately? Is the server being bogged down by NWoodruff's giant image files? (Yes, I'm kidding.) Seriously, it seems likely to me that the current issues are solvable. It's not as though geohashing has become immensely more popular in the last few months.

Either way, the generous offer is much appreciated. --starbird 03:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Geohashing may not have been, but bear in mind the server is shared with other things like the xkcd forums. --Davidc 22:42, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Individual graticule pages seem to be particularly slow to load, compared to other things. Perhaps some of the transcluded stuff like maps and coordinates require complicated server operations? The really annoying thing is that the slowness continues even when you return to such a page with the browser back button; apparently, caching is suppressed. Dtobias 14:09, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

If this particularily affects graticule pages using the so called "quick links" template, it's a known fact that those quick links actually are very slow links. Try removing them from the page. --Ekorren 14:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

libwww-perl/5.828

Some bot is running against this wiki, with that user-agent. Anyone running a bot with that user-agent? It's running amok (300k+ hits per day) and apparently is the cause of the recent slow-down. --Davidc 01:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I think it is some windows virus. It is now hitting our servers at our company. I don't think it has anything to do with a Geohasher or Geohashbot. --NWoodruff 12:43, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that's the default user agent string when you access Web pages via Perl scripts using a standard library for this purpose. Dtobias 13:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

removing "Community portal" inclusion.

Would anyone object if I remove the inclusion of the site Geohashing:Community_Portal at the end of Main Page? I think it contains a lot of information that does not need to be necessarily on the Main Page, adding to the bulk. -- relet 10:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

DNO - Danatar 12:59, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. --davidc 10:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Can we provide a landing place for people who have seen a marker in the wild?

My thought is this: i often leave a marker at a geohashing spot, usually with some sort of link to the wiki. I think it would be really cool if we could have a big callout box along the lines of: "Have you seen a geohashing marker? Let us know here!" and take them to a page where we can let them enter details of what they've seen and where. It would be great for us as geohashers to know that our efforts have been noticed, and we could help the visitors find out more about who left the marker. -- sermoa 12:15, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Inspired by my own idea, i put a callout box on today's expedition, taking people to the talk page where i explained how to add a comment. It worked - Talk:2009-09-27 50 -1 - we got a response! :) -- sermoa 00:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Following our discussion at the hashpoint, I have created Template:Advert and ~~Template:AdvertTalk~~. You can see them on our expedition and talk pages. I think I might tweak the text just a little though now. --davidc 10:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

No need to use Template:AdvertTalk any more. Just use Template:Advert on both the expedition page and on its talk page, and it auto-detects which it's being used on. --davidc 23:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Nice one! Thank you David. --macronencer 22:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Create a page which can be linked to easily as (for instance) www.geohashing.org/marker or www.geohashing.org/I found a marker. This could then be a general landing point advertised on hash markers. This page could have a brief description of hashing, an list of areas the marker might have been (or link to Geohashing:Current_events#Recent Expeditions and it's list of recent hashes) where people could find out about the particular expedition the marker relates to (if there is no direct link), and explain how to add comments. There's other stuff that could be added I guess, as long as we don't overwhelm people. --mykaDragonBlue [- i have no sig -] 23:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I like that idea! Shouldn't be too hard to swing that, just a crash course on the sport. You could use a lot of the same information the Ambassador letters contain, if you wanted to have a template to work off of. --Oracle989 02:49 UTC 2009-10-12

I started something: Marker - please help to elaborate. ;) -- relet 08:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

That's a great start, relet! I have a suggestion for another item on that page: I think some landowners might be concerned that this kind of thing will happen to them again (perhaps they've heard of geocaching and are expecting more visitors in the future). Maybe we should have a paragraph explaining that this is unlikely in the near future due to the probabilities involved (unless they own a LOT of land!) --macronencer 11:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Geo Hashing talk:Community Portal

It appears that the convention is to put general discussion on this page, so I'm moving the two discussion points from Geohashing talk:Community Portal to this page, and leaving a message suggesting people write here instead. The next two entries were moved from that page. --davidc 23:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Main page image URL

I noticed that the URL on the picture shown on the main page is (accidentally, I assume) wrong - this address sends you to the Boston graticule map instead of the wiki's main page. Maybe someone with access outside of the wiki could change the redirection so it sends you to the wiki instead? And/or we could swap the picture for one with the wiki address, there should be enough of them to choose from. --Ekorren 19:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

That's a kind of common mistake. I assume that the map has existed before the wiki did. Therefore xkcd.com/geohashing and www.xkcd.com/geohashing redirect to the map - wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing is the only valid wiki address. I also think that it would be a good idea to have the redirect changed. -- Relet 20:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Translation in French

Hi everyone, french-speaking Belgian geohasher here!

I'd love to help you translating the wiki into Molière's language. I'm not officially an interpreter, but my french is almost perfect (I actually say that just to pretend I am humble, but it IS in fact perfect), and I am good enough with computers to help, even if I'm not used to working with wikis.

Anyway, if you think I can help, please tell me so on my page (See? See? I'm playing with links!)

If you're not sure I'm a dedicated geohasher, you should know that even if I've been geohashing only once so far, I've already posted a nude picture of my formidable, hatted self. That should be enough for anyone I guess.

I should be able to proof-read content-wise. I speak fluently, but I am not a native speaker. And I support translations. -- relet 11:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

So, what should I translate, and how? If someone could give me the links, I could work on it soon. pierre 13:49, 7 July 2009 (GMT+1)

Hashpoint from 0001 to 0930

Sorry if this is answered elsewhere, but is there a hashpoint on Monday through Friday: midnight to 0930? I am in the Eastern USA. Thanks! -- LuxMundi 19:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I think the answer to that is no, at your location. I'm in the UK and our local hashes are available for 24 hours because of the W30 rule, but west of W30 folks have to wait for the stock market to open for that day - except at weekends, of course, as the Friday opening balance is used. Hope that helps! --macronencer 20:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that you are correct, but it just seems strange to me that there are basically 2 whole days (47.5 hours) with no hash point (in this time zone). It seems like we should be able to use the previous days hash until 0930, or use the East of 30 coords, call it an "Early Riser's Hash". Today, we had 2 1/2 hours of sunlight, with no hashpoint, but sunset is at 1740, so I don't leave work until after dark. --LuxMundi 21:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess making hashes for 24 hours after their announcement for everyone would have been the fairer choice. I've never read the original discussion though. -- relet 16:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing that the original focus was on the 4pm meetups, and the idea was to leave just enough to time to get to them. As popularity grew, countries around the world joined in, people with 9-5 jobs went for evening hashes, the more adventurous attempted midnight mountaineering, and the capacity of the original idea was stretched to breaking point. I do feel bad about the unfairness. In Europe we really benefit from the W30 rule as there's always a hash to go to at any time (assuming it's reachable). If the rules were changed, I'd favour allowing the use of the previous day's co-ordinates until the new ones became available (for those west of W30) - I think that would be the easiest option as it would avoid complicated modifications to existing co-ordinate calculators. The hash point for a day would still be the hash point for that day calculated the same way as always, but the difference would be one of logistics: just allow extended use beyond midnight, depending on the region. The only trouble with this is knowing exactly at what point the DJIA is announced. If you were on a trip to a hash point at 0930 on the East coast of the USA and have no Internet then you would have a problem :) --macronencer 11:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Being new here, when I figured this out, I thought it was really unfair that there wasn't a hash for a third of the day, but it makes sense because a new day is a new hash/potential adventure. Just sucks that early risers don't have an option. That being said, I don't think the current day's hash should just disappear at midnight. If I'm out camping or out on the town and decide to hit a hash at 1am, even though my phone says it's the next day, I don't consider it 'tomorrow' until I go to sleep. Since this whole concept is based on the Honor System, what if we set up the rule so that as long as you haven't "gone to sleep for the night" and it's before 9am, the previous day's hash is still open to you(the exception would obviously be the weekend/holiday days where there is a new hash ready and waiting). The Expedition page should be written up for that day's hash and times should be noted but not penalized. In other words, Thursday night at 12:37am(Friday morning in reality) I made it to the hash. I would then write up the expedition under (Thursday's) 2014-08-28 42 -78 and just note that I was out with friends and decided to try for the midnight hash but got delayed somewhere. Or I decided to go at 2am for whatever reason but before going to bed. Pedalpusher (talk) 11:29, 27 August 2014 (EDT)

Login CAPTCHA issues

The login CAPTCHA is a big problem for programs that need to login. Specifically, for me, Commonist can no longer login to batch upload images. Presumably other programs will have problems too - hashdroid for example?

I can understand a CAPTCHA on account creation, but I'm not sure why we need one on login - is there seriously a problem with programs brute-forcing passwords that isn't already being handled by the lock-out mechanism? (I don't know the specifics of the lock-out, but I do know I just locked myself out from my regular account for a while).

~~I note that the XKCD IRC wiki requires a CAPTCHA for account creation but not for login. I assume this is how our wiki used to be too.~~

~~I vote the login CAPTCHA is removed urgently! --davidc 20:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)~~

Apparently it's only happening for my IP address. I guess I've locked myself out! --davidc 21:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I would still like to see an exemption for Commonist. All too often I'm getting login failures - if I login as davidcx and then login as davidc, for example (neither with a password failure), the simple fact that I've been to the login page from this IP three times in one day seems to be enough to trigger the CAPTCHA. --davidc 23:33, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

HTTPS

Can we get a HTTPS server for the wiki? (It would be nice to have it a bit more secure, if it's not too much trouble to turn that on) -- relet 07:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I second this —particularly as (AFAIK) any user login authentication will be sent in cleartext. Who is the correct person to ask about this regarding implementation of SSL on this Wiki? --Saxbophone (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Can we make the "Discussion" button more visible?

The usual place where people comment on your expedition report is on its discussion page. Everything else is discussed on that page too. I would love to have that discussion blue/red link a little larger, to alert people that there actually have been some comments. Ideally, I'd like to have a largish button in the title bar saying "n Comments/Commentators/Discussion threads" - which could count either the number of users talking on the discussion page, or the number of sections including section zero (which might be easier). -- relet 07:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

machine parseable coordinate reference, datepages

Is there a source for daily coordinates that is reliably machine parseable. I'm currently using the datepages, but the format of the html code around the coordinates changes, both based on day of week, and when someone fiddles with it. Ideally this would be a very bare static file for each day, not processed through mediawiki to minimise server load. It should have the east and west coordinates separately, even when they are the same, and also the global coordinates. Alh 08:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

There should be several potential sources available, you could take a look into the Implementations page. My own Small Hash Inquiry Tool (aka anthill) offers a special minimum mode which is made to be a minimalistic source for further processing. I admit that I haven't really followed the developments of other people during the past months, so I can't give you an overview. --Ekorren 09:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The usual way is to query one of the DJIA sources and use one of the implementations to calculate all the hashes you need.

http://geo.crox.net/djia/%s where %s is any of several date-like string formats
http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/YYYY/MM/DD

The former checks three different sources for the correct DJIA and publishes it when two of them agree on the opening price. -- relet 17:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Ambassador template

Anyone has a ambassador template I can start from or do I have to make a new one from scratch when I translate it? --Vswe 18:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Template:Ambassador_geohash? --Crox 21:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry for being unclear, I meant the images (Media:Ambassador-EN-GB.png for example). And I didn't meant a wiki template, more like a photoshop image or something similar. Couldn't be more unclear with my first sentence though. :P --Vswe 22:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Well the first two pictures occuring in it can be found here and here and for the example graticule with coordinates you should probably take something from Sweden [if I'm guessing correctly that this is the language you want to translate it into?] like the Stockholm graticule - just take a screnshot from peeron would be my suggestion. Is this the kind of information you were looking for? --HiroProtagonist 23:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering if there was something I could start from or if I have to do it from scratch. Apparently there isn't anything else to start from so I guess I have to make it from nothing. --Vswe 14:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Categorization question

I just looked at Special:UncategorizedPages again and I'm not sure how pages should be categorized about expeditions that didn't take place and nobody ever intended to, for example 2010-05-05 45 -75. As far as I see we have

Category:Expedition_planning --> for expeditions that people planned to go on, but didn't even start out
Category:Not reached - Did not attempt --> for an actual expedition/meet up that did take place but people never attempted to reach the actual spot of the hash

Is that about right?

Yes, as far as I can see. — Benjw _[talk] 15:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Then what to do with pages that were just created to point out a good spot without any intention of somebody ever going there? I don't think that's "Expedition planning" but "Not reached - Did not attempt" is for actual expeditions... New category? Or should such pages just be deleted? --HiroProtagonist 03:26, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I think what's happened in the past is that the text has been moved to the graticule page. For example, if the expedition page simply says something like "This is a good spot -- behind the bike sheds at NASA headquarters" but it doesn't look like anyone's tried to go there, you could just add that sentence to the "Hashes considered" section on the graticule page, or similar -- exactly where depends on how the page is organised -- and delete the unused expedition page. With some, it's hard to tell, so maybe leave them a month or two and come back to them later. — Benjw _[talk] 15:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Problem with Google Maps lookup/link, 2010-11-19

The Peeron lookup map was a little slow, so I tried the Google Maps link. Nov 11 for 490 -74 (Newark NJ) was in Middletown NJ, according to this link. When Peeron came up, it gave a different location, close to I-195. The OSM link and Geohash Droid concur with Peeron. Can anyone determine what's wrong with the Google link, and how long it's been out of sync with other calculators? -- Jevanyn 15:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

which link did you use? and was it still wrong after Peeron updated? when in doubt, I'd recommend to use Ekorren's Hash Inquiry Tool, since it uses several sources for the DJIA value. --Crox 20:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

New user spam

Due to the many new users joining and spamming (the CAPTCHAs don't seem to help), something needs to be done.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/113003 (Getting users to confirm emails. Not sure if this is already done)
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension%3aConfirmAccount (Which requires someone -- I think me -- to confirm all new accounts. I'm not entirely sure how much setup is required for this -- there's a section on adding sql tables to the db as well, which I'm not really keen on. Plus how much configiration is needed to get it all working, and how much hassle it's going to be to approve people).

Other thoughts/suggestions are appreciated. --joannac 21:53, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

Getting users to confirm account creation after sending them an email is never a bad idea, I think. Don't know whether it's already done either, though, and don't want to create an account just try it out.

Approval by a moderator should only be used as last resort, and only if the number of moderators authorized to approve accounts is large enough that approval is usually done within of minutes. If people are forced to wait for some moderator to return from an expedition, holiday or a phase of general ignorance of duties until they can finish their registration and contribute stuff, they probably won't come back after they are approved.

Also, by which criteria do you want to approve accounts? Some spam accounts have speaking names, other's don't, some legitimate user names don't really look different, and at that time there's nothing else you have to go by. You'll need a very good fortune-teller to tell apart legitimate and spam users before their first contribution. I currently think the risk of losing legitimate users weighs heavier than a few spam pages. --Ekorren 05:53, 15 September 2011 (EDT)

The only real way to rid our website from spam is to make it harder to spam our website than it is to spam other websites. Well, as in return on investment is much lower on our website than others. I would say as little time as a spam page exist on our site that the return on time invested it fairly low. We seem to have several users monitor the recent changes page and are able to delete spam pages within an hour of being setup.

Yes it is time consuming but it does appear to be working as a new user then sees his spam page taken down in minutes, that new user never posts another page to our site. I know there are thousands of spammers out there. But I do believe that the current method that we have appears to be the lessor of all evils. --NWoodruff 09:53, 15 September 2011 (EDT)

The problem is that that method can induce burn-out, which is a more insidious problem. -- Phyzome 14:14, 17 September 2011 (EDT)

The spammers' latest approach seems to be: create a user account (because you need one), create a new spam page, throw away the account. They don't care that the page is down in minutes or days, because they're paid by the edit. Once they've left a link and followed it from our site, they get paid. Removing it later just cleans up afterward. My opinion is, don't raise the bar for new members (how many legit new members are we getting?), unless it's a one-on-one chat with the user to make sure they're not Peggy. Yes, email confirmation will slow down the barbarians, but it's no replacement for the personal approach. -- Jevanyn

From the account creation page: "E-mail address is optional, but is needed for password resets, should you forget your password. You can also choose to let others contact you through your user or talk page without needing to reveal your identity." -> I would recommend we enable e-mail validation as a first measure. --Crox 07:59, 24 September 2011 (EDT)

Personally, I don't think the number of moderators needs to be high enough to allow approvals in minutes. Geohashing ain't exactly an instant gratification sport. Even if it took a couple of days, I'd think it would be okay. I'm afraid, though, that we will not be raising the bar very much. The spammers will just pay a MTurk'er type of setup a little bit to set up their account and then use it for spamming. But it seems like a reasonable next step. Jiml 13:34, 23 September 2011 (EDT)

Problems with peeron map?

I'm getting errors with the peeron map. It gives out an error message that says a new google API key needs to be created. After that it simply says "Your browser doesn't seem to be compatible with google maps." (it is. I have always used peeron maps to get the location of a geohash. Also, I tried three different browsers. I don't think they all are incompatible with google maps ;) ). So, whoever runs irc.peeron.com propably needs to create a new google API key... :/ --Bierhefe 10:53, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

Use carabiner.peeron.com instead and it should be fine. You may also want to check Ekorren's Geohash tool (see also User:Ekorren/Hash_Inquiry_Tool). --Crox 15:14, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

That solution is kinda a problem. We have a lot of links to http://irc.peeron.com in the wiki, and all of those will break with this "fix". Also, we have http://irc.peeron.com/ embedded deep inside the wiki in the map (or graticule ?) template and so the maps on most of the expedition pages don't work. Jiml 15:49, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

Perhaps ask zigdon to do some kind of forwarding? Dunno. Has someone pinged him on irc/emailed him? --joannac 16:19, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

Wait -- there are only like, a bunch of templates we have to change? What's the problem? --joannac 16:25, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

A lot of pages have actual links to http://irc.peeron.com/something?lat=33+long=33 that are part of the text, not from a template. Jiml 21:40, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

I went and changed all the graticules near me. We just need everyone else to do the same. --NWoodruff 09:53, 22 September 2011 (EDT)

Could someone with database access do a global search and replace from irc.peeron.com to carabiner.peeron.com? Many/most pages still contain the old address and the links don't work. Could this be put in a template so if the website moves again, only one template need fixing. Thanks for the excellent site. Sourcerer 08:30, 2 January 2012 (EST)

Better to have a bot do it. -- Jevanyn 09:37, 3 January 2012 (EST)

The Peeron map embedded in the expedition template is currently not displaying the correct coordinates. Is there anyone that has a clue? --Fasanen 08:31, 11 February 2012 (EST)

The Peeron map has said that "market data is not available" since yesterday (2012-04-16). Meaning today and yesterday, the map has not displayed coordinates for any graticule (and I tried all over- america, europe, asia, etc.). I'm not a computer person, so I really don't know what to do. Nor am I a wiki person. I can calculate coordinates on my own, so I'm not too worried, but still, Peeron is buggy. -MayorOfBoxTown 09:52, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

In the meantime, check http://relet.net/geco - it does basically the same thing, just more reliable. -- relet 11:11, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

It's blocked at my work :( MayorOfBoxTown 11:23, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

Huh, why is that? -- relet 12:19, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

Dunno. A lot of things are that shouldn't be and vice-versa. Pandora is, but Tumblr isn't, so I just stopped trying to figure out the logic of things here. -MayorOfBoxTown 15:15, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

FWIW, relet/geco is semiblocked at Hijackals current work, too. I get a page asking me warning about potential dangers, but can click something along the lines of "I know, everything I do will be logged" and get to the dangerous DJIA. This happens to a few privately operated pages, but not to many. The black/grey/whitelist there depends on whether one uses Wifi or wire, and status within the organization, though. In some random way we haven't figured out yet, my supervisor's wired PC isn't allowed on some pages my wireless notebook can access... --Hijackal 22:24, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. I was just curious what kind of greylist that server landed on. Might be something co-hosted, or essentially random, but still. Well. Your Internet Is Broken[tm]. -- relet 02:54, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

Abortive responses from server?

I'm a bit fed up, last weekend I spent several hours trying to upload a set of photos, and setting report text (finally suceeded), but the site doesn't respond nicely to me. No (obvious) problems with any other web-site, but I'm editing this in Firefox (currently still working, but I expect it to go bad shortly) and the Internet Explorer 'source' of the page that hasn't loaded terminates at the '<tr' text (indeed, no no closing angle-bracket/greater-than) immediately after the '<table class="infobox"...' tag. On the machine next to this one IE has paused part way through the A HREF for the 'geco' link for Today's Location on the page (the one for my home graticule) that I'm viewing.

Firefox on the other machine is just waiting for wiki.xkcd.com, while this one is currently still working, but I fully expect it to fail, perhaps while posting this. Again, no other website is doing this. So: Browser problems? (But: Multiple browsers) Machine problems? (But: Multiple machines) ISP problems? (But: Not happening to any other websites.) Site problems? (But: Haven't found anyone else complaining)

I've been a bit quiet about this, but it's one reason why I've left a bit of a backlog of 2011 reports not fully (or actually) completed, or at least yet uploaded all pictures I had intended, and managed to let it slide. Any ideas of what to do? --Monty 20:51, 13 January 2012 (EST)

I did some additional checking, during a free moment, once I'd outstayed my apparent browsing limit on the neighbouring machine to this. My home graticule page for Sheffield, UK appears to stick (in IE) at 497th character whehn checking the source (Firefox just stops responding). Page for Blackpool, UK (same URL length, thus assumed same HTTP header overheads) also stops at 497th character, albeit a different exact point in the source, with (among other things) differing lengths of neighbouring graticule names being already part of each truncated source. Both figures include an assumed 1 byte for LF/NL (47 vs 48). I also checked the 'Gibraltar' page and 444 chars+47LFs give 491, but with a URL length difference of 16, so (whether you assume header counts towards 'traffic length' or not) not so neatly the same value, or even would be with multiple mentions of the URL during handshaking, but very close. Not going to preview this, because last time I tried that I got the same server non-response and could procede to post, so going to have to hope I've not left rogue formatting in.--Monty 09:01, 26 January 2012 (EST)

Updated update: Just now finding that Peeron links (via ActiveGeohasher) are complaining about that invalid Google API thingy, I get redirected to the XKCD main page. While I'm still waiting for the first browser tab that I tried to open to load up the Sheffield graticule page. I'm really wanting/needing to make some Wiki updates, but this is a bit annoying... --Monty 23:49, 24 February 2012 (EST)

Well, I'd not much to say, recently (did some expiditing that needs writing up, and even reading the site, or at least something like Peeron, for absolutely every day's possible expeditions), but regret I'd not even been writing anything so never noticed before, but the situation may have changed. I don't know why, but I'm so far (cross fingers!) today still able to post without getting time-outs on pages. So, whatever it was (website, webserver, one ISP or other, local network, personal machines' interaction with the OSI stack, browser updates..?) it might be fixed. Knock on wood, eh? --Monty 13:23, 5 April 2012 (EDT)

Flags represent countries, not languages

See How Should Language Selection be Displayed on the Web?.

In Spain there are four official languages, and Spanish is spoken in more than 20 countries. Toño 10:23, 28 February 2012 (EST)

I agree. But I also think that the most correct solution is not always the most helpful. The point being, if you really stand in front of a wall of text in a completely foreign language, you scan for visual clues first. And when you see a flag you will at least get a version that can probably be understood by someone from that country. I have no idea for a better symbol, unless maybe a big stack of flags that when clicked leads you to an extended selection. I live myself in a country where, when clicking on "your" flag, you have a 50% chance that you do not get to read the language you are speaking... still it's easier than finding the words Nynorsk or Bokmål or Norsk or Norwegian on a wall of text, possibly written in characters that I am not even used to. I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. -- relet 12:38, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

This should go without saying, but...

An April Fool's joke that renders the site unusable is really, really, really, really obnoxious. I've lost time, money, and the fun of writing up an expedition over this shit.

If people can't use the website, geohashing ceases to be fun, and it dies. Do you understand that? Whoever is responsible: please undo your joke, congratulate yourself that you've succeeded in pissing someone off, and please, please, please: don't do it again. Michael5000 17:22, 31 March 2012 (EDT)

I have no idea what you're complaining about. The site looks fine to me. If you're having issues you can always figure out the geohash location for yourself. The formula is available in multiple places --Nameless 19:05, 31 March 2012 (EDT)

Yes. I used one of them, and went on a geohashing expedition. Then I thought I would write it up, which is the function of this wiki.

Listen. I LOVE geohashing, really love it. And I love being part of this community. But this joke, ha ha ha, is pretty unnerving: it reminds me that I've plowed hundreds, probably thousands ,of hours into an activity that centers around a website which I have no control over whatsoever. Seeing the site being disabled so cavalierly is... sobering.

Thank you, I suppose, for not jeering more than you did at my concerns and lost time when granting me a workaround. Michael5000 19:47, 31 March 2012 (EDT)

For the records: I'm with you there Michael5000, and have complained as well. I just hope it will not happen again. -- relet 12:30, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

Any chance you could mention what it was that pissed people off that much? I happened to be offline during the time. - Mampfred 17:47, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

The wiki was rotated 180 degrees using a css rotate style, because of something with Australia. Scrolling (and moving the cursor) in edit boxes is pretty broken when up and down are turned. -- relet 18:26, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

For the records: I thought it was funny. If you don't like it, turn your display upside down. If you really don't like it, come back on April 2nd. The wiki is upside down? Well, the server might even be down sometimes. Life goes on. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? ;) - Paintedhell 04:07, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

I didn't say I don't think it was funny. But it didn't work correctly and didn't get fixed. -- relet 04:41, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

Please, allow bigger files (at least 2MB)

Resizing every single photo is quite irritating mkoniecz 01:29, 23 July 2012 (EDT)

The limit was 2MB last time I checked. I agree that it is irritating - we used to have it pretty high, but experienced the server running out of memory when it had to resize too many pictures at the same time. I would support raising the limit if it is maintainable. -- relet 03:03, 23 July 2012 (EDT)

Weird. Upload of file smaller than 2MB failed. So - lets make it 3MB. mkoniecz 03:14, 23 July 2012 (EDT)

Is it possible to extend mapimg tag to include also globalhash location?

It would be nice to have possibility to check for this 1/86400 possibility without checking separate service. mkoniecz 11:06, 23 July 2012 (EDT)

Randomness and The Algorithm

Has anyone done an analysis of the randomness of The Algorithm's decimal parts? (... hence the randomness of the Dow values?)

If yes, then where might I find the results?
If no, then where is the data? (... that feeds Origin geohash achievement/Displaced origin geohash achievement?)

Just wondering.1PE (Canberra) 02:55, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

I think^{[citation needed]} that it's generally acknowledged that the md5 hashing algorithm produces pseudo-random results. The Dow values aren't pseudo-random at all, although their last few digits might be. As for an analysis of geohash coordinates, the results of a small test are at the bottom of the "The Algorithm" page; I don't know of any others. (Note that globalhashes are biased towards the poles, because of the shape of the Earth.) The data for past coordinates is simply a list of DJ opening values such as can be obtained from your favourite reliable source. — Benjw _{talk} 10:07, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Yup, there's actually some on the page you linked to. :D -- relet 17:21, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Hmmm.... pretty red dots, but there must be a listing of the historical Dow openings somewhere. I'll look for that. 1PE (Canberra) 19:38, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Once you find it, I'd love to see just the points since the start of this some 7½ years ago (east and west, of course). --Thomcat 19:53, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Although, of course, the original comic wasn't published until May 2008 despite using a 2005 date, so it's only 4½ really. — Benjw _{talk} 23:55, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Re: What is This?

The descriotion appearing on the main page was recently changed by The Muscovite. (His user name is in Russian, which I can't type right now.) I almost rolled it back outright because of the wording, but once I parsed it mentally, I adjusted the wording a little. It might be useful to have several people write their own "what is geohashing?" descriptions. Also in future, maybe brand-new geohashers shouldn't be allowed to edit the main page without someone reviewing it (not that it can't be adjusted / reverted by anyone at any time). -- Jevanyn (talk) 11:13, 26 February 2013 (EST)

New feature: Recent non-expeditions

I suggest a new front-page feature: "Recent non-expeditions". This would allow enthusiashs to document interesting hashes that are impractical, potentially dangerous, etc. I offer as an example 2013-03-15 -34 149 that is very near an interesting Google Maps feature: An aircraft pictured in flight. I can't justify going to the hash (70km each way) but created the 'planning' page 2013-03-15 -34 149 because there might well have been other geohashers going along the nearby highway who could easily detour 2km and do the hash and 'see' the Boeing 737. 1PE (Canberra) (talk) 00:37, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

Okay, that's almost 2 weeks for comments. You make your mind up.1PE (Canberra) (talk) 10:01, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

see below, start page reoirganisation. Rincewind (talk) 11:47, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Links to carabiner.peeron.com broken

Hi all, with the shift to a new month, I'm seeing that the links to carabiner.peeron.com are not expressing the date correctly. Namely, the day portion is missing the leading zero.

For example, the URL for today from the Frederick, MD page is http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-6&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=9&abs=-1.

It should be http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-06&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=9&abs=-1

It's easy enough to realize what's going on once I land on the peeron page but I think it's worth fixing.

Thanks. OfficeLinebacker (talk) 15:32, 6 April 2013 (EDT)OfficeLinebacker

The link from template (the one on the right with all the others) is correct on Frederick,_Maryland: (http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-06&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=8). The one that had to be fixed is the one in the text of the page - I've just replaced LOCALDAY with LOCALDAY2 and it seems to be good now... (not sure where those are defined) --Crox (talk) 18:44, 6 April 2013 (EDT)

Cheers, Crox! OfficeLinebacker (talk)OfficeLinebacker

Standard graticule page format?

Hi, I'm fairly new here. I was recently going through different graticule pages looking for ideas on how to improve my home graticule's page and I was somewhat surprised to see that there is no standard formatting, or really any common formatting across graticule pages. There are so many different ways each is laid out, not only is it difficult to determine how I should proceed, but some pages are just plain difficult or bothersome to navigate due to the way they're formatted. They contain quite a bit of useful information, so it's kind of a shame that these pages haven't been streamlined yet. If I may be so bold, I'd like to propose we put together some kind of standard format for these pages. It would make things a lot easier to navigate and understand, especially for newcomers like myself. Mystrsyko (talk) 13:55, 30 November 2013 (EST)

Welcome to the greatest game on Earth, Mystersyko. Regarding graticule page format, I think the community would want to hear your specific ideas. Certainly there's room for improvement. But not having a cut-and-dried format has allowed local communities -- which often means a single person, of course -- to set up their home graticule the way they like it, and a universal format that undid their work would probably be frustrating to a lot of people. (As somebody who has pioneered a lot of grats, I consider getting to set up the graticule page part of my reward for getting there first -- with the proviso, of course, that it's a wiki, so if you don't like how I set it up, you can show me how to do it right.) Part of the reason you are confused, I suspect, is that you are from Chicago, which has the weird "shifted graticule" thing going on. I don't understand the logic of the shifted graticule, and frankly it doesn't quite seem cricket to me, but at least one person in Chicago must have liked the idea at some point, and if they are still active you'll probably need to either learn to love it, talk people out of it, or (most likely) just ignore it and focus on the conventional grats. Happy geohashing! Michael5000 (talk) 03:17, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Yeah, I understand the desire and to some extent the need for individuality when setting up a graticule page. I guess my idea is born more out of occasional poor formatting than the differences between formats. Some examples I see are how Aurora, Illinois is basically just a list of expeditions, which isn't terribly interesting and doesn't really give a good idea of how active it is or what character the graticule and it's hashers have. Atlanta, Georgia, has, to me at least, an unneccessarily long list of "Geohashes scouted", which discourages readers from getting as far down as the beautiful tables of expedition dates and the list of local hashers. Chicago, Illinois is nearly half discussion of the mentioned "shifted graticule", which like many things on many wiki pages, seems to be a fairly dated discussion. On the other side of things, I like how Portland, Oregon's list of hashes is limited to the 10 most recent, and further down is a nice little history of the graticule. Newark, New Jersey also has some good formatting ideas with older dates archived on other pages to reduce the clutter, and inactive local hashers archived as well.

I see all of this room for improvement, and all of these great ideas, but no coherency. I know a wiki is inherently a work in progress, and I find traces of that work here and there. I'd like to see the place continue to improve, but being a newbie I can't bring myself to jump in a start changing things around on everyone. I guess to sum up everything I'm trying to say; hi, I'm here to help, lol. :) Mystrsyko (talk) 22:31, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Navigation bar "broken"? Tools list is missing

When updating an expedition, or rather trying to, I realized the Upload File link and other tools (I think the category was "Special pages" are missing completely from the navigation bar on the left. Is this intentional, and how is one to reach it now? Maybe I'm daft, but it sure took me some searching time to find the page. :( Rincewind (talk) 08:07, 14 January 2014 (EST)

It's there for me under the tools section. Maybe a CSS issue, try hard refreshing ... or panicking. - Mampfred (talk) 10:02, 14 January 2014 (EST)

The whole tools section is gone for me (Firefox and IE)...

After checking your reply, it was there on the main page (sans the Upload file entry), after purging the cache it's gone, again. Also, the bar is just unformatted lines of text without the usual box around them. Looks broken to me... Anyone familiar with the site's CSS care to check this? Rincewind (talk)

Solved! It was the Cologne Blue skin. If you choose 'Modern' instead, it's there again. Maybe nobody but me switched this? Rincewind (talk) 17:52, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Erasing a Page or an uploaded photo

If I create wiki page with wrong URL and title: How can I erase it completely? And if I load up the wrong photo: How can I erase that from my uploaded photos? Greetings--Q-Owl (talk) 13:15, 13 May 2014 (EDT)

To really delete a page or an uploaded photo simply edit the page/photo and replace the current text with the delete template, e.g. {{delete|reason}}. At some point, an admin (i.e. Joannac) will come along and delete the page permanently. - Mampfred (talk) 18:58, 13 May 2014 (EDT)

with braces ("geschweifte Klammern") or box brackets ("eckige Klammern")? --Q-Owl (talk) 04:28, 15 May 2014 (EDT)

with braces {{ }} --GeorgDerReisende (talk) 10:08, 15 May 2014 (EDT)

Exactly as I wrote it so braces it is :) - Mampfred (talk) 14:00, 15 May 2014 (EDT)

further Translation

On wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/Geo_Hashing:Community_Portal are only very few pages to be translated. Which are the next to be translated? --Q-Owl (talk) 06:50, 18 May 2014 (EDT)

Most Active Geohashers

I would like to propose and start a discussion on the creation of a page similar to the Most active graticules page for users/geohashers. I kind of built a small example with expedition reports from January-April over here. Mystrsyko (talk) 11:18, 29 May 2014 (EDT)

Very good idea! --Q-Owl (talk) 17:01, 7 July 2014 (EDT)

It's done! Most active Geohashers is now up. Years prior to 2014 will be added as I get through them. Mystrsyko (talk) 22:48, 9 January 2015 (EST)

Graticule Twinning

It's like twin towns. Has anyone tried this? --Sourcerer (talk) 12:02, 1 June 2015 (EDT)

With further thought, A Tale of Two Hashes achievement is quite similar to this idea. --Sourcerer (talk) 09:39, 6 July 2015 (EDT)

The idea is even older than the ToTH achievement (which came up in 2009), see 2008-12-27_51_8... --Crox (talk) 13:19, 19 October 2015 (EDT)

Allow KML file uploads

These open in Google Earth. For example I could make a kml file with pushpins for each of the expeditions in 52, 1 and clickable links to the expedition pages. Creating the simple kml file might be easy to automate for any graticule. Users might also upload kml tracklogs for viewing in Google Earth. --Sourcerer (talk) 09:39, 6 July 2015 (EDT)

I wholeheartedly second this. I've been sharing tracks like this with non-GPS-savvy users for a long time now, and they usually find them very easy to use as they have used Google Earth before. Onicofago (talk) 22:01, 22 October 2015 (EDT)

what3words web and phone apps

The entire globe is divided into 3x3 metre squares, each uniquely identified by three words.

For example "shorten.clock.chew" is a volcanic pool at Rotorua, New Zealand. This is accurate enough for geohashing. I've had hours of fun exploring and looking for fun combinations. So humans.slimy.pines is close to Sidney Opera House. You could summon emergency services to a wilderness accident at bypassed.then.react, pinpointing the victim to a 3x3 metre square. To make this work, the victim and the rescuer both need the app on their phone. 3G access is not needed because the database is small enough to be held on the phone. Of course GPS is needed. I wonder if this tool might inspire some new geohashing games or ribbons. --Sourcerer (talk) 11:55, 25 September 2015 (EDT)

It occurs to me to wonder why we need to identify each 3x3 metre square with a set of words, when we have a similar tool already -- latitude and longitude. What problem exists with using "52.21098, 0.07654" that is solved by instead using "dismember.artichoke.tweedledee"? — Benjw _{talk} 14:09, 25 September 2015 (EDT)

The numeric notation is non memorable. I live at aimlessly.worm.gourmet which at the very least makes me smile. If you put a typo into the numbers, it's valid data but a but wrong location. If you put a typo into what3words, it'll most likely tell you, no such location. --Sourcerer (talk) 10:27, 28 September 2015 (EDT)

Of course latitude and longitude give you a good idea of the location. The three words don't unless you load up the app. --Sourcerer (talk) 02:58, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

I came across this website years ago. I dismissed it because the three-word phrases don't translate. They claim to work in multiple languages, but the location for "little.white.house" is not the same as "poco.blanco.casa". It's basically a random word encoding, and their word database is proprietary. I don't know how widely used it is. -- Jevanyn (talk) 14:09, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

I'll use it to get Amazon drones to deliver beer to my tent! --Sourcerer (talk) 11:29, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Closest consecutive geohashes?

I noticed that 2016-02-12 Friday's (Lat°43.832 Lon°23.064) and 2016-02-13 Saturday's (Lat°42.713 Lon°26.716) west of 30 are pretty close - in (42,-88) they're about 5.4km apart. Has anyone kept track of the closest daily consecutive geohashes by minute? Petek (talk) 15:22, 12 February 2016 (EST)

5.3 km or about 3 miles. Interesting and quite unusual. I've been watching the coordinates around 52,1 closely for the last 14 months and nothing has got that close. --Sourcerer (talk) 02:42, 13 February 2016 (EST)

The distance between 2013-12-07 53 9 and 2013-12-08 53 9 was 1.7136 km. --GeorgDerReisende (talk) 05:13, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Not consecutive, but these two: 2013-04-07_45_-123 and 2013-03-27_45_-123 were about 100 feet and 10 days apart. Jiml (talk) 14:52, 23 February 2016 (EST)

Consecutive and reached: 2012-11-23 49 8 2012-11-22 49 8. They are about 3 kilometres apart. Just wanted to add them ;) - RecentlyChanged (talk)

For east of -30, 2017-11-16 & 2017-11-17 were ridiculously close together. For more extreme results, calculate the distance in the 89N graticules. Here at 53N, they were about 40 metres apart. -- KarMann (talk) 14:34, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Coordinate computation mismatch

I just realized, that the coordinate computation seems to mismatch between implementations. I did an expedition on 2018-05-19 and when starting my report, there's a mismatch in the coordinates. The meetup template shows the coordinates as 51.4591310, 6.8416041, whereas other implementations disagree:

geohashing.info: 51.06876635, 6.87614349
crox: 51.068766° N, 6.876143° E
GeoHash Droid screenshot

Anyone having an idea what went wrong here? Did I reach the correct coordinates? -- pah (talk) 11:27, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello, as far as I can tell, the reason for the mismatch is that peeron does not have the DJIA for that date: http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/2018/05/19

An implementation that 1. relies only on peeron and 2. does not handle an error/empty value is at risk of producing wrong coordinates.

According to three separate sources (Google, Yahoo and WSJ), the DJIA opening value for 2018-05-18 is 24707.72. This is the info that geo.crox.net uses to calculate the coordinates displayed on the poster, and, as far as I can tell, the info that geohashing.info / GeoHash Droid use as well.

Regards, --Crox (talk) 12:20, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Update: User_talk:Zigdon#DJIA_opening_value_for_2018-05-18

Thanks for checking and notifying Zigdon about it, Crox! I'll take my expedition as a success then. :-) -- pah

(talk) 12:48, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Google Maps API

We're getting "For development purposes only" messages on google maps. Who can fix that? McKay (talk) 17:12, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem is that Google have ceased to allow free access to their maps: lots of sites show that same useless image now. Many moved to using open street map instead, but I've no idea how this would be accomplished , I'm finding this wiki page stuff a steep enough learning curve ! Hedgepig

Google maps api still says that basic usage is free. I think we just have an expired API dev key. McKay (talk) 16:44, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Can anyone fix this? Pretty please?

I have absolutely no idea about their APIs, and would require a steep learning curve, probably. Rincewind (talk) 17:22, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Correct Coordinates?

The coordinates I used yesterday, 2019-06-05, (.60977, .20472) are the same on geohashing.info, the Geohash Droid, the Small Hash tool, and xkcd.nathanwoodruff.com. But, there's a different set shown here on the wiki (.1652345, .8947327). Am I making a bonehead mistake of some kind? I kind of hope so.... Michael5000 (talk) 05:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

The other sources are correct and the wiki is wrong, since it also has the coordinates of past expeditions wrong. For example, according to the wiki one would have to swim for a while to reach 2018-11-29 54 7, when this hash actually was on land.

The wiki calculates the coordinates with the #dow function, which currently seems to just return an empty string. See how the "Expected output" and "Template output" columns differ. That is because the function depends on carabiner.peeron.com, which currently is down. I hope that everything works again as soon as Zigdon puts carabiner.peeron.com back online. --Fippe (talk) 12:48, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Fippe -- I appreciate the detailed response. One of these year's maybe I'll learn how this Wiki actually functions...

Facebook Page?

Geohashing does not have a Facebook page. Should I make one? The chat at #geohashing on mibbit is rarely used these days.

Closed group?
Require a valid wiki user-ID?
Help newbies!
Promote the hobby!

Comments please: Sourcerer (talk) 04:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

As I wrote earlier: If you are on Facebook, sure, I have no problem with it. Not sure how much other geohashers would participate though (I wouldn't, as I am not active there) --Fippe (talk) 18:25, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to get more exposure to a large audience. People who might not otherwise ever hear of geohashing would see it appearing in their friends' updates and hopefully join in the fun eventually. Would the idea be that hashers would post updates of their expeditions to the geohashing page? I'm not a Facebook user either, so I'm not too familiar with it... FelixTheCat (talk) 09:21, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

If no one opposes the idea, I'll set it up with links to this wiki and encourage people to log their expeditions in the normal way. It might be possible to add more bells and whistles like "Share my Expedition on Facebook" but that's for the future.Sourcerer (talk) 10:27, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

While not on Facebook, I recognize it has some popularity. It would be good if the account would be "returned" to a new maintainer if Sourcerer for example loses the will to entertain it. I'm all for the page. (And a major overhaul of the webpage, which I always found a bit unattractive and "unergonomical".) Rincewind (talk) 17:25, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Translation

If you don't mind, I added a translation of the references pages :) Maybe it helps luring people into the community --SastRe.O (talk) 21:18, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

February 2020

Figured new and old TODOs should be separate since some of the technical context is different. Arlo (talk) 00:54, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi all, is this the right place to report errors? I wasn't sure. Only I found one: Visiting the Discussion tab on the Couch Potato Geohash achievment page provokes the following MediaWiki internal error: Original exception: [05e3067451213af905582a3d] 2020-02-26 17:17:56: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError" -- Macronencer (talk) 17:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

There was a <math>-Tag on the page, the new Wiki seems to be unable to deal with those, so I removed it. Should work now. --Fippe (talk) 19:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I really must get around to looking at those <math> tag issues. -DanQ (talk)

Yes, thanks Fippe! DanQ, do you happen to know if there are any problems with email sending from the site? I can't get a confirmation email at the moment so I'm unable to get notifications. --Macronencer (talk)

I am having same issue, but initially thought it was a problem on my email provider's side. --Fippe (talk) 11:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

My apologies... I think I might have screwed up the gallery on the main page. To be honest, I can't fathom how it's supposed to work. I see there's a bot that does something, but I don't know what I need to do manually, and which bits get picked up for me. I made an expedition report for 2020-02-29 51 -1 and clicked "Add" to add it... but then, despite my using the same format as the other things on there, there's now a red link and I can't see why. What have I missed? --Macronencer (talk) 14:03, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Just a small typo: The link was going to "2020-20-29 51 -1", not "2020-02-29 51 -1". It is fixed now. --Fippe (talk)

D'oh! Sorry. So I invented a new calendar there. Thanks for fixing it! --Macronencer (talk)

Is there anything wrong with the Coordinates Reached category?

...or am I being dumb? Please could someone take a look at 2020-03-13 51 1 as I can't understand why it doesn't show the Coordinates reached category at the bottom of the screen. If there's a typo somewhere, I can't see it at the moment! Thanks. --Macronencer (talk) 18:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

It was an unclosed HTML comment. Fixed. --Fippe (talk) 19:43, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! I can't believe I missed that. I need more sleep (or perhaps more coffee?) :-\ --Macronencer (talk) 20:15, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Get rid of the xkcd Saturday meetup thing?

When was the last time anyone randomly met another geohasher at 4pm on a Saturday? Maybe it is time to update the front page of the wiki to reflect the current state of geohashing? Stevage (talk) 01:00, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

It was quite recently actually, 2020-05-23 52 9. JoDaEmPa and I had never met before, and the only reason we met was both of us being there on a Saturday at 16:00. --Fippe (talk) 07:03, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

For me it also was quite recently, with GeorgDerReisende, but the meetup time was more of a convenient guideline. I always thought the meetup is overrated, starting with it referring to one seventh of the week. To have larger meetups sometime, I would keep it, but since noone views this as mandatory anyway, somehow down-priorize it on the webpage. Rincewind (talk) 12:17, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, as far as I know the only source for it is the mouseover text of the original comic, which I don't think was meant to be a mandate, just a suggestion. Arlo (talk) 04:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Working with the mediawiki API

If this isn't the right place to ask this - apologies!

I've been trying to automate some of the more tedious parts of reporting an expedition, in particular uploading photos and creating the expedition page if it doesn't exist. But I'm running into some problems with the mediawiki API (geohashing.site/api.php).

In particular, I am having trouble posting to the `upload` action, (i.e. `action=upload`) - I have retrieved a CSRF token from `action=tokens` but if I include it as a query parameter I get an error ("The following parameter was found in the query string, but must be in the POST body: token."), but if I include it as part of the multipart/form-data post body it doesn't seem to find it ("The "token" parameter must be set.").

Can anyone help me with this please? Here's a link to a gist - I'm using javascript via Deno for this proof-of-concept. Mdixon4 (talk)

I can't answer your question directly, but I can tell you how I usually upload photos. I use the Pywikibot script upload.py. --Fippe (talk) 07:09, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

All of this is way too much tedious work for me

(Text copied and slightly modified from Talk:Expedition because no one replies there)

I really enjoy the concept of geohashing, but after every expedition, I feel annoyed and sandbagged to do all of that expedition-page-creating! Following all of the instructions on the Expedition page is really time-consuming and exhausting! I probably spend MORE TIME creating the expedition page (including ordering and uploading photos and tracklog) than the expedition itself took! Also, it stresses me out like crazy (because I DON’T HAVE THE TIME for it!) and therefore hampers my fun of geohashing as a whole!

To have a better understanding why it’s too much for me, here’s a list of everything I have to do after each expedition:

   ❗ prepare media files
       ❗ transfer images and tracklog(s) from phone:
           => photos, OruxMaps photos, OruxMaps screenshot(s), GPX tracklog(s)
           => everything should be in the “Geohashing” folder
       ❗ download my friend’s photos if he participated
       ❗ organize everything and separate non-public images from the rest
   ❗ create and finish expedition report
       ❗ title image
       ❗ Location
       ❗ Participants
       ❗ Plans
       ❗ Expedition
       ❗ Tracklog
           ❗ upload tracklog to the wiki
           ❗ write short text about the tracklog
       ❗ Gallery
           ❗ upload images to the wiki
           ❗ sort them in the right order
           ❗ add categories to images (e. g. Grins)
           ❗ add witty captions
       ❗ Achievements
           ❗ improve OpenStreetMap near the geohash
           ❗ upload GPX tracklog to OpenStreetMap if it’s good quality
           ❗ add OpenStreetMap achievement
           ❗ add other achievements
           ❗ add images to all achievements
       ❗ Categories – update when finished!
   ❗ update user page
   ❗ update graticule page
   ❗ add expedition report to Main Page

Do you have ANY solutions?? It feels like I need to hire someone to create the pages for me to get my time back for other activities (including my duties)! — Green guy! (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Whilst I quite enjoy the creation of the expedition report and like taking my time adding things and changing progress statistics, I can understand your frustration at how long of a process it can be. I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done on the wiki side of things regarding your media preparation as that all happens independently of the website, but there may be solutions to the rest of your issue. For example, it may be possible to create a template to help automate the process if you plan for your reports to all follow the same formatting. I'm not very well informed on this side of things, but some users such as Stevage may be able to help as I believe they have already created their own templates. I also don't think we would be able to help at all with the OpenStreetMap side of things as that is a different site, but there may be a solution for that externally. I will mention that there is no pressure to create detailed reports for each expedition if you are not enjoying doing so. A lot of people don't even report their expeditions at all, but if you'd prefer to write a sentence or two describing the expedition that would not be criticised. The main goal is for your own enjoyment, so if you don't enjoy the report-writing, don't put too much effort into it. --KerrMcF (talk) 15:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Some of the things you listed are optional: You don't have to do all that OSM stuff. Others can be automatized, like the list of expeditions on your graticule page(s) and your user page. If you would like that, I can set it up for you.

If you are an Android user, you can use Geohash Droid, an app which makes it easier to post text and photos to the wiki. An iOS app is currently being developed by BrendanTWhite.

Regarding categories, some users just use Category:New report and let other Geohashers figure out the right categories for them.

Plans, witty captions, image categories, tracklogs, even achievements are optional. Don't add them if you dont like to. Tracklog descriptions don't feel necessary to me at all, a tracklog usually speaks for itself.

I used to have a phase where I would think "I would like to go to that Geohash, but I don't feel like writing tons of prose describing my adventure", and ended up not going. The solution: All that prose is optional. This is a valid report. I hope you can find a level of detail that is comfortable for you. --Fippe (talk) 15:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Huge thanks to you and may God bless you for your help! — Green guy! (talk) 16:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

All of this is way too much tedious work for me, part 2

I well understand that many aspects of creating expedition pages are optional; however, I still feel forced to write an interesting report for every expedition due to my extreme perfectionism.

In one aspect, I feel obligated to create an extensive gallery with witty captions because otherwise my perfectionism tells me I’m withholding parts of my expedition from the public. On the other hand, there’s the logical argument that the pictures have less value for strangers anyway as they’re especially tied to personal memories.

Do you think it’s a valid decision to leave out the gallery completely, except for proof of reaching the coordinates or obtaining an achievement? Thanks for your help, again! — Green guy! (talk) 13:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I thought I would comment because I am the public. Despite never having even attempted a geohash of my own, I think this is a fascinating hobby and I read the reports everyday (and now I read all the updated pages too).

It seems to me that each geohasher has their own voice and style, which is part of my enjoyment and adds to the feeling that you are accompanying them on their expeditions. I have enjoyed your reports, including the fact that you nearly always include a meal during your trips. I think that's good living! Since Fippe has replied to you here, I might add that I appreciate his terse but informative style, which seems to have evolved to deal with his own time issues, and might suggest to you how you might manage your own.

I understand perfectionism very well, and I get how it can become stifling, so I just wanted you to know that what you do is interesting and appreciated perhaps more widely than you may realise.

I think this is an activity where you can pretty much set your own rules and standards, and certainly not be judged by how much or how little you write or share. In other words, there are no rights or wrongs. I hope you can continue with your reports while also being kind to yourself. Best wishes. --- Grunesquallor (talk) 06:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

If it helps you post, absolutely leave out whatever you want! It's far more important to explore the world than to tell us every detail of it.

I've done expeditions (a couple of failures, one success) that I've not managed to write up at all. I've shot vloggy footage on expeditions which I've then never used. I've failed to find the energy to extract a tracklog from my GPS.

Write as much or as little as you like!

(But I agree, it'd be nice if it were easier.) - --Dan Q (talk) 08:49, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Here is an approach that works for me: I already know what pictures I will take in advance. One of my feet standing on the coordinates, one of the site of the Geohash, a screenshot for proof, and a panorama of the surroundings. My captions usually aren't very witty either.

Similarly, my reports usually are quote formulaic. How did I get there, how did I zero in on the coordinates, how did I return home.

Plenty of things have happened during my expeditions that did not make it into any report because I did not feel like adding it, and that is okay. I am not obligated to share everything about my expeditions with the public, and neither are you.

I think it is better to write brief report than to write no report at all. Few pictures are better than no pictures at all.

You can be as brief as you want and include as few pictures as you want, we are not going to judge you! :-) --Fippe (talk) 20:16, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-An archive of "done" items on this page can be found on [[Talk:Main Page/Archive]].
+{{talk archive notice|currentpage=3}}
+{{protected}}
+* Use [[Template:Graticule]] to generate a map of the graticule for graticule pages.
+* Use [[Template:Meetup graticule]] to generate a map of a day's location for meetup/expedition pages.
+* '''All scripts and implementations written for the Geohashing algorithm should be posted at [[Implementations]].  Any discussion on an implementation's bugs should be directed to [[Talk:Implementations]].'''
-Putting this at the top so someone else doesn't do it as well, I've made a template [[Template:Surrounds]], for putting in the surrounding graticules. Pretty basic but you get the idea.[[User:Gormster|Gormster]] 15:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+== Golobal Hash Distribution ==
-: And it's been superseded by {{tl|Graticule}}, which also includes a map. Yay progress. [[User:Duskwolf|Duskwolf]] 04:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-== Conventions ==
+There are already known issues listed about gradicules nearer to the poles being smaller that gradicules nearer to the equator as well as the distribution of hash points being more dense towards the pole side of each gradicul (which is more pronounced the closer the gradicule is to a pole). The same issue applies to the location of the globalhash. Solving the issue for gradicules would be rather complex and has been deemed to be infeasible; however the globalhash issue can be solved relatively easily with [https://mathworld.wolfram.com/SpherePointPicking.html trigonometry]. The formula for longitude would reamin unchanged, but latitude would be calculated as arccos(2 * hash - 1) (using a degree mode for arccos; or more likely in automation converting from radians to degrees). [[User:Robartsd|Robartsd]] ([[User talk:Robartsd|talk]]) 2023-08-12 18:38 UTC
-You might want to come up with some basic conventions and outline them very clearly, very quickly. This site is going to explode pretty quick, and without any, it will become a mess.
-EG:
+== What Three Wordle ==
- - Region/Graticule pages named "City Name, Country" where "City Name" is the most major (by population) urban center contained within it.
- - Activity pages named "YYYY-MM-DD GRATICULE"
- - Graticules referred to by top-left coordinate.
- - Hell, create a template for region/graticule pages so they have some semblance of consistency. And some sort of outline on what it should contain
- - (Descr of region, image of graticule, Activities Section, Notable Events Section).
-:Should states be abbreviated or spelled out in the list of graticules on the Region/Graticule pages? Currently is a hodgepodge and the OCD in me is cringing. --[[User:KDinCT|KDinCT]] 20:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+This is just a bit of fun. Solve three consecutive [https://devangthakkar.com/wordle_archive/?4 Wordle] puzzles. If the three words are valid, use [https://w3w.co/awake.blush.focal What Three Words] to visit the location. The first three valid words are for puzzles 4, 5, and 6 giving a 3x3 metre square in Dongkou, China. This game is hard because there are zero or one locations per day. Often the consecutive Wordles are not a valid w3w location. [[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 07:12, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
-Just my $0.02. [[User:NuclearDog|NuclearDog]] 10:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+: Neat! If one is willing to step outside the bounds of 'official' [NYT] Wordle, additional locations may be gleaned by using the alternate w3w languages; one of the criticisms of w3w is that these alternate labels are used but don't 'translate', however it works for us in this case. I've not found archives of past solutions as in your link, but one could in theory still play day by day and make one's own archive (I didn't, so the w3ws linked following are reduplications of one of the listed examples for each clone):
-: I think I like the first options best, makes searching (through [[Special:Allpages]], especially) considerably easier. Working on [[Eindhoven, Netherlands]] right now. Also it might not be a bad idea to keep discussions on upcoming meetings to the talk pages. [[User:Nazgjunk|Nazgjunk]] 14:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-I personally just wanted to add that we need to set a convention on how the locations are listed. I personally liked them ordered by latitude and longitude (east to west and north to south) but they appear to be recently edited into alphabetical order. Which I do not think is as 'smart' because they are listed by only one city in the area and someone might accidentally add the area again using a different city. Once the list is long duplicates will be hard to spot.--[[User:KDinCT|KDinCT]] 15:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+* AF: https://wortel.wrintiewaar.co.za or https://watse.klyntji.com, https://what3words.com/diere.diere.diere
-: The list of graticules on the [[Main Page]] gets this right, doesn't it? That is, the instructions are there. Execution of those is PEBKAC, of course. [[User:Nazgjunk|Nazgjunk]] 15:22, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+* AR: https://kelmaly.com or https://arwordle.netlify.app or https://woardle.com, https://what3words.com/%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%87.%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%87.%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%87
+* BG: https://wordle-bg.ggerganov.com (https://github.com/ggerganov/wordle-bg/blob/master/words/words.txt), https://what3words.com/%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF.%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF.%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF
+* CS: https://www.slovana.cz/pismeno-a-na-5 (https://github.com/Camobeast/CzechWordle/blob/main/Wordle_CZ/Word_list.txt), https://what3words.com/snaha.snaha.snaha
+* CY: https://cyrdle.web.app/about or https://rhwyd.org/wordle or https://hiriaith.cymru/gairglo (I guess the Wordle creator is Welsh so it got cloned early on?), https://what3words.com/penio.penio.penio
+* DA: TBD (https://github.com/MadsBock/danishwordle/blob/main/index.html), https://what3words.com/adlyd.adlyd.adlyd
+* DE: https://woertchen.sofacoach.de or https://wordle.at, https://what3words.com/glanz.glanz.glanz
+* EL: https://dspinellis.github.io/word-master, https://what3words.com/%CE%AF%CF%83%CF%87%CF%85%CE%B5.%CE%AF%CF%83%CF%87%CF%85%CE%B5.%CE%AF%CF%83%CF%87%CF%85%CE%B5
+* ES: https://wordle.danielfrg.com, https://what3words.com/llega.llega.llega
+* FA: https://wordlefarsi.ir or https://persianwordle.github.io or https://zealous-varahamihira-36b0cb.netlify.app (https://github.com/Bashirkazimi/wordle-persian/blob/main/src/constants/wordlist.ts), https://what3words.com/%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B4%D9%82%DB%8C.%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B4%D9%82%DB%8C.%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B4%D9%82%DB%8C
+* FI: TBD (https://github.com/Putila/Sananen/blob/master/words.txt), https://what3words.com/suomu.suomu.suomu
+* FR: https://wordle.louan.me (https://github.com/LouanBen/wordle-fr/blob/main/src/assets/json/playable-words.json), https://what3words.com/tarif.tarif.tarif
+* HE: https://meduyeket.net (not https://github.com/OwenGranot/Wordle-Hebrew/blob/main/src/utils/words.json, https://what3words.com/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9F.%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9F.%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9F
+* HI: https://kach.github.io/shabdle or https://hindiwordle.vercel.app (https://github.com/DeepakR-28/hindi-wordle/blob/main/data/words.json), https://what3words.com/%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A0%E0%A4%B2.%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A0%E0%A4%B2.%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A0%E0%A4%B2
+* HU: https://szozat.miklosdanka.com a.k.a. https://reactle.vercel.app (https://github.com/mdanka/szozat/blob/main/src/constants/hungarian-puzzles.json), https://what3words.com/kvarc.kvarc.kvarc
+* and so on, it's here that I found https://rwmpelstilzchen.gitlab.io/wordles/#ml and saw how many alternate clones each language had and gave up, lol
-::This has since been fixed back into locational order. --[[User:KDinCT|KDinCT]] 15:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+: [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 21:07, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
-Graticules should be named by their lower right corner since the algorithm adds to the graticule's integer, right? Actually... it would be: (Lower right in NW Hemi, Lower left in NE Hemi, Upper right in SW Hemi, Upper left in SE Hemi.)
+== HTTPS ==
-That seems a lot for a convention, but all you have to say is "graticules are areas with the same integer coordinates." --[[User:Apocalypsepony|TLP]] 15:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:I noticed that this convention causes the name of the graticule to not match the link.  Is that an issue? --[[User:scooter.heyer|Scooter]] 18:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-::Yeah I just saw that too, but only in some places. Dublin is linked from the bottom left, Bremen is linked from the bottom right. 9i would think it would be reversed, but it's not...) --[[User:Apocalypsepony|TLP]] 21:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+This site is not HTTPs, and google is now informing people that it's not secure. ''(unsigned comment by [[User:Mckaysalisbury]])''
+:I think the site should get an HTTPS certificate. [[#HTTPS 2|Relet already asked about this eight years ago.]] Getting one these days does not cost anything but a little time, but I do not know who has the rights to install one. Probably the [[Special:ListUsers/bureaucrat|Bureaucrats]], that is [[User:Randall|Randall]], [[User:Joannac|Joannac]] and [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]]. I'll write on their talk pages, but I don't think they're active. If nobody responds, perhaps Randall will answer to an email. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 19:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
+::The .site has been LetsEncrypted, it seems. [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 14:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
-What should the convention be when a main city is split (ex. 61, -149(or -150) (Anchorage, Alaska) and 41, -96 West of 56th St; 41, -95 East of 56th St. (Omaha, NE))? My view is that these areas should be seperated and one will get visited sometimes and the other will get visited other times.--[[User:KDinCT|KDinCT]] 15:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+= Proposed changes to Algorithm =
-:What if in a case like that, you have a city page that links to the individual graticule pages in the area? For now, you'd still leave the graticule pages on the main page. I'm thinking over this problem too for Philadelphia -- the city is basically on top of (40, -75) so there's 4 graticules in the area, only one of which I've named Philadelphia. --[[User:Apocalypsepony|TLP]] 15:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:: I'd say in your case, for example, the same Philadelphia link should be listed four times (once per graticule) on the Main Page. The target page will explain the multigraticule situation, and maybe any locality-specific ways you handle individuals perhaps using more than one. —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 18:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+== Tenth Anniversary Anti-Discrimination Algorithm Upgrade ==
-:::Yeah that could work maybe. It definitely would for just two graticules, but I wouldn't want to put four of them on one page, especially since the NE one in this case includes Staten Island and lower Manhattan. --[[User:Apocalypsepony|TLP]] 21:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+Over the years, the fairness of the Algorithm has come into question. Geohashers in different parts of the world get unequal advance notice of their future coordinates. To celebrate our tenth anniversary and as a symbolic measure, could we eliminate this source of geohashing descrimination? To level the playing field, each time zone could get 12 hours notice of tomorrow's coordinates which remain valid for 24 hours. So at noon today, local time, you'd discover tomorrow's coordinates. Now we need to find a new metric for use in the algorithm. [https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/feed/v1.0/geojson.php Earthquake json data] might be usable and could lead to a new San Andreas Achievement. We'd could use the data from the quake nearest to and before noon, local time.  --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 11:14, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
-In graticule pages, I suggest using the following template:
+:The current algorithm is indeed a bit unfair. The W30 rule was a good idea to amend some disadvantages players in the eastern hemisphere 1) have. However now the players in Europe have an advantage over those in America. I won't complain about that since I live in longitude 11 east, but I can see the point.
-<nowiki>  {{graticule
-  |map=<map lat="37" lon="-122"/>
-  |e=East Bay, California
-  |ne=Sacramento, California
-  }}</nowiki>
-[[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 02:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-== Saturday Times ==
+:I don't think that there is a fair solution that uses a certain event (like the Dow opening) for the whole world while keeping each time zone's beginning of the day. Using different stock market indices for different regions would soften that a bit, but it would also make the calculation more complex.
-Um the blog post says the meet ups are at 4, the wiki says they are at 3, is one time more official?
+:A fair seed value would have to be:
+* published at the same local time for each time zone (well... time zone borders are not always straight lines, but this is a different problem)
+* distinct and verifiable
+* not dependent on a certain provider
-: We were still going back and forth and the wiki hadn't been updated.  For now, 4:00 -- closer to dinner :) [[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 06:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
+:Especially the last point is a huge advantage of the DJIA since there are several sources to get the value. I'm not sure if the earthquake JSON satisfies that.
-What happens if the meeting point and me end up in different time zones? This is a particularly serious problem for those who live near the International Date Line, where it deviates from the 180° meridian. I guess the most natural way would be to define that the meeting time should be 4:00 according to the destination's local time, but as far as I can see, this is nowhere defined --[[Special:Contributions/62.20.90.195|62.20.90.195]] 10:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:1) I don't really like the phrases eastern and western hemisphere, since the division is completely arbitrary. There is no east pole and therefore no natural eastern half of the globe. But in this case I lack a better word. -- [[User:Solli|Solli]] ([[User talk:Solli|talk]]) 12:59, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
-: Well, if you arrived according to your local time, people from either side of the International Date Line would arrive at different times. So it seems sensical for it to be the meeting time according to the destination's local time, as you said. -- [[Special:Contributions/212.219.57.58|212.219.57.58]] 11:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:I like the idea for geohashing that this proposal would replace the entropy generated by financial data with entropy from geological data. It would also mean that weekend/holiday hashes would not be known as far in advance since new data would be available every single day. [[User:Robartsd|Robartsd]] ([[User talk:Robartsd|talk]]) 2023-08-12 17:56 UTC
-:: That still leaves a problem near the date line: there could be two consecutive Saturday meetings, one on either side of the date line, or there could be no Saturday meeting at all, because one day, the meeting point could be on the side where it is Friday, and the day after, on the other side, where it then is Sunday. The problem is that the date is not clearly defined in a region that is divided by the date line. I doubt it will be a problem in reality though, as the date doesn't seem to run over land, so any region that it runs though will have one side that is completely in the ocean. If we'd just agree to use the local time at the meeting point as the time reference, the whole time line problem is solved, I think. - Sparky
+:I think we keep the DJIA for continuity's sake but make the point valid for twenty four hours from the time of announcement.  That means that at 9:30 New York time on Monday, which is 4:30 Kiritimati time on Tuesday an offset will be announced from the southwest corner of the graticule which will be valid for twenty-four hours until 9:30 New York time on Tuesday, which is 4:30 Kiritimati time on Wednesday.  [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 15:04, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
-::: Um, the IDL [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Date_Line#Geography deliberately avoids] crossing nations internally, and I suspect that there aren't that many corner cases where the differing time zone becomes a problem. [[Special:Contributions/192.43.227.18|192.43.227.18]] 14:10, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::You can't sensibly have an announcement of the co-ordinates at a given '''local''' time in each time zone. That would require 24 different announcements/data sources. There's got to be just one data source (or pedantically/arguably two, given how the current W30 rule works).
-Perhaps it would be a good idea to have the meetings at lunchtime (say, 12:30 local time), so that people who have to work on weekdays (or Saturday, for that matter) can still go to meetings during their lunch break if it happens to be close enough to where they work. - Sparky
+::I also think that having co-ordinates only valid for (up to) 24 hours on a given date, ending at midnight, is one of the key things about geohashing. The date is part of the algorithm, so making co-ordinates valid across two different dates, even if only for 24 hours in total, seems wrong. Even to the east of W30, where co-ordinates are announced the previous day and people get more notice of the location, the location itself doesn't become valid until midnight ticks around and the date changes accordingly.
-== Europe Time Zones problem ==
+::Putting those two observations together says that, for me, '''if''' a change is made, the W30 rule should be adopted globally, and today's DJIA announcement should be used to define tomorrow's co-ordinates, valid from midnight to midnight, no matter where in the world you are. I have no strong opinion on whether a change should be made or not, but if it is, this is the only option that seems sensible to me. [[User:PaintedJaguar|PaintedJaguar]] ([[User talk:PaintedJaguar|talk]]) 06:42, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
-'''It seems there are two main proposed solutions.  One is to use yesterday's stock openings for regions where the NYSE open is too late in the day, and the other is to use the Nikkei/London for east Asia and Europe respectively.  We'll make a decision on that later tonight after reading over all the discussion.  If you have an opinion, voice it here.''' --[[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 09:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
+::Painted Jaguar you have a point, but the date would be anchored in New York, or if we wish to be respectful to Randall Munroe who created this site, Boston.  In other words, we have to anchor ourselves on something somewhere, so we might as well use our origin. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 12:40, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
-: Even if different regions were to use different values, users in countries and individual graticules/supergraticules will still define meeting times according to local sensibilities, and sometimes will necessarily use the penultimate value when they need more time. Multiple values doesn't really solve this, and makes definition of local convention more complex (deciding whether to use last closing value is tied in with which index to use, dealing with nationalism/regionalism...). Summing a few market closings (see [[#DOW_source]] for discussion of opening vs closing values) leaves local convention to a simple definition of how recent a value to use (most recent, second most recent...) and what time/timezone to meetup. Plus, using a common value is just cooler. —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 19:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:30 AM EST is 04:30 PM CET. So for us europeans it's half an hour or even 1½h after meet up times... :(
+:: I get your point. I just wanted to point out that every algorithm that depends on a singular event like the Dow opening results in having all coordinates available at the same point in time - and at different local times around the globe. If this is considered unfair, we would have to find another source of randomness. We could also skip the idea that hash points are valid on a given day (starting at 0:00 and endig at 24:00 local time) and make them valid, let's say from midnigt to midnight UTC or nine a.m to nine a.m. EST or whatever. But this would make Midnight Geohashes a bit awkward if they can be reached at lunch time in certain places. -- [[User:Solli|Solli]] ([[User talk:Solli|talk]]) 12:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
-: So what's a sensible Europe policy?  If we can come up with something reasonable we can certainly adjust the tool.  (The time zone stuff always makes my head spin a little).
-: Perhaps we should have anyone east of the Atlantic, up to a point, use the previous day's stock opening.  Anyone in Europe have any thoughts?
-::I'm sorry for missing the point, but 9:30 AM EST on Friday is, by my calculation, 13:30 UTC, so with daylight saving taken into account: 15:30 (3:30PM) in central europe, on Friday. That would give us more than enough time to organise meetups on Saturday, right? The question is: do we do meetups at 3 PM local time or EST? - [[User:DWizzy|DWizzy]]
-:: I vote for using the Nikkei/FTSI
+::I agree Solli.  I think that the Midnight Hash is a reasonable sacrifice in order to keep everyone on the same page with timing.  In other news, let's try to get Randall and some of the developers involved.  I'd also like to see if we can contact [[User:Pastori|Pastori]] and [[User:Tilley|Tilley]] because Pastori is super active and Tilley writes his expedition pages. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 09:13, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
-Indeed, how inconsiderate. We could, ofcourse, just say we use the previous day coordinates. Another option would be to use the numbers of a local stockmarket, but that could be a problem here, in the Netherlands, where I live. The country is quite small, and the chances of the meeting point being in one of the neighboring countries (especially Germany) are significant. However, if the Germans use their own stock market, they would have a different meeting point, possibly even in the Netherlands.
+::Even though I'm not really affected I see the point. I think the idea of PaintedJaguar is the best one, even though it still is kind of unfair. I don't like the idea of having the coordinates valid from the opening, but that's probably just because I'm not used to it. But it would make it possible for some people to make a double-hash on one local day, while others wouldn't have that possibility. I'll let it sink in. Also I think the tenth anniversary would be a sensible time to address the issue! [[User:RecentlyChanged|RecentlyChanged]] ([[User_talk:RecentlyChanged|talk]]) 13:27, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
-Since it doesn't really matter which stock market we use, nationalistic feeling aside, we could just pick any one of them, or use the sum or some other calculation of various stock markets. -Sparky
+::I think the only possible change could be, like PaintedJaguar said, is to enact the W30 rule in totality. It's a lot fairer, and has the benefit of the ENTIRE world having the same point rather than the current split. RecentlyChanged, I'm not sure what you mean. The 30W rule would create the hash for the next day and would be good for the 24 hours of that day(going active at Midnight). The closest you get to a double-hash in the same graticule is what Sourcerer does a lot with his midnight runs by the -0 to 0 border...but maybe I'm not understanding your concern.
-: Well, we want to pick something as simple and universal as possible.  Some kind of EU market sounds reasonable; I hadn't really thought about that.  It'd be nice if there were an elegant global solution that just involved a simple change ... if people here can get a consensus, we'll change the tool for handling Europe better. --[[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 07:36, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
+::...Next thought...The current day's hash would be yesterday's opening and...yesterday's date? Hmmm...maybe there should also be a change to use Yesterday's opening and <Date-of-hash> to calculate the fractions(like what is already done on the weekend). Being in the Eastern Time Zone, I've never really paid much attention to the 30W rule. I think the biggest barrier to this change from the start(from what I've read), was that Randall wanted this to be a completely spontaneous expedition that couldn't be planned for until the day of. I feel like he has left this game to the community and we can collectively decide how to proceed. With everyone east of 30W already having a few hours to half a day to plan, this throws a wrench in the original intention anyway. [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] ([[User talk:Pedalpusher|talk]]) 20:01, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
-:: Ideally, the global solution would be to use a market as far east as possible, so that everyone has the co-ordinates in time. But this happens at roughly the same time that the Dow closes the previous day, so that might be easier. It would give people in the western hemisphere a longer time to plan their trip than those in the east, but even New Zealand would get the number in time. -- Zephyr
-::: That could, ofcourse solve the problem, but it's basically the same thing as using the previous days location if you're east of the Atlantic. - Sparky
+:Since I was asked to comment, here are my thoughts:
-:::: Of course; but the pedant in me dislikes the idea of having a different algorithm depending on whether one is in the Americas or not. Actually, I suppose it isn't, if only the javascript interpreted "most recent" correctly :) -- Zephyr
+:- With the current rules, East of 30W there is less time during the week, but there is more time to plan the Saturday meet-up (which is arguably the most important one), so that seems like a fair compensation. Of course having done only [[2016-08-08 40 -73|one hash East of 30W]] I'm not the most qualified to have an opinion on that matter.
+:- How big is this issue really? Maybe someone should compute the average hash per user East and West of 30W?
+:- There are other properties of geohashing that arguably make it "unfair" - graticules get smaller when you go further North/further South of the Equator, so for the people in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorage,_Alaska Anchorage] in average the geohashes are closer than the ones in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quito Quito].
+:- Remember, the 30W rule was created as an extension/precision, by the original author, and only a few days after the original announcement. Diverging too much from [https://xkcd.com/426/ the] [https://blog.xkcd.com/2008/05/21/geohashing/ original] [https://blog.xkcd.com/2008/05/23/geohashing-followup-change-to-algorithm-for-europe-africa-asia-australia/ idea] would be like creating a new game... Unless there is really a consensus, there is a risk of a split in the community, which is already not that large. If there is ever a vote on a revision of the algorithm, we should decide in advance of a very high threshold required to adopt the proposed change (for instance 90% in favor, as well as a certain share of all users active in the past 12 months taking part in the vote).
+:--[[User:Crox|Crox]] ([[User talk:Crox|talk]]) 22:57, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
-::: Maybe just enter full time with local timezone as a reference time. I mean in the webapp you enter your local, timezoned time. The algorithm converts it to the stock market timezone and counts the latest opening before that. Geohashers around you are more than likely to use the same timezone, as you, so they will get the same location. No problem. Just enter Saturday, 4PM CEST (or whatever TZ you live in now) and you get *some* *predictable* stock market opening. - Tadeusz
+:I'd like to kind of recenter everyone on what I think is important in geohashing so that I can make my argument for basing it off of a Universal time from the opening of the stock exchange.
+::1. Get to the hashpoint.  It doesn't matter which vehicles you use, who you see there, get there.
+::2. Chances are that point is a place you've never been before and will open your eyes to a new view.
+::3. Spontaneity is key.  There is a minimal amount of time to plan.
+:With all of this in mind I can understand applying the 30W rule for the whole world but I think that making the point valid immediately is part of what makes the challenge exciting.  Nonetheless, there should be at least a 24 hour period where each point is valid.
+:Finally I'd like to add that for the sake of those living along the Prime Meridian I would like all hashpoints to be offset from the southwest corner of the graticule.  When the east/west offset is very high the points are very far apart making it unnecessarily more difficult for those hashers. We can publish negative offsets for those in the western and southern hemisphere who are too lazy to do subtraction. - Yosef - 17-Aug-2017
-:: Unfortunately, there's no way to have a real "global" solution when using a local stock market. Some random number source from space would work, but would be boring, and too hard to discover. I like the stock market idea. How about this:
+::As someone who actually lives about 12 km from the prime meridian, I'd say this is a complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  Yes, some days my nearest hash is very far away, but I'm not going to go hashing every day anyway.  Some days my luck is in and I get ''two'' hashpoints nearby.  The weird goings-on in this part of the world are part of the interest of hashing, and are a very small price to pay for the simplicity of the Algorithm -- everyone has the same decimal coordinates.  Please don't change that.  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 09:24, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
-::*Hawaii to Newfoundland (UTC -10 to UTC -3.5) uses the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average Dow Jones]
-::*Greenland to India (UTC -3 to UTC +5.5) uses [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euronext_100 Euronext 100]
-::*Bangladesh to Micronesia (UTC +6 to UTC -11) uses the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikkei_225 Nikkei 225]
-::Calculating the local timezone is an exercise left to the reader... -Lucky
-::: I agree about the no-real-global-solution point and in liking the stock market idea, but I don't see why random numbers from space would be boring. The md5 hash deprives the stock market index of meaning -- the only value is the fact that the number doesn't come into our knowledge until a predictable time in the morning. Maybe we can think of something intrinsically local per location? Like the opening value of your country's currency? —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 09:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+I'd like to protest the current unfairness towards the western hemisphere with my formal PROTEST hash: [[2017-08-20 42 -87]]  No graticule should be left without a valid hashpoint for more than 24 hours.  The hash point was announced at 8:30 Chicago time on Sunday, and I reached it by 8:15 Chicago time on Monday. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 18:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
+:Nice one. What about one simple additional rule: "Each hash point is valid until the next valid hashpoint for this graticule is announced." Im just an elitist European and I don't have such problems, but I can't see why it should not be allowed to go hashing in the morning hours in certain areas. -- [[User:Solli|Solli]] ([[User talk:Solli|talk]]) 07:13, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
+:Thanks [[User:Solli|Solli]].  How do we get proper consensus for such a change?  Do we need the developers to change their techniques or can we just leave it alone? [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 14:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
-:::: Like I pointed out before, that would cause new problems near country boundaries, but it shouldn't be a problem in Europe, since most of it uses the Euro anyway. It might be better than choosing any particular stock exchange in Europe, since it's more neutral. - Sparky
+::I have to reject your protest for [[2017-08-20 42 -87]], because the coordinates for the Sunday hashes are published on 8:30 Chicago time on Friday! --[[User:GeorgDerReisende|GeorgDerReisende]] ([[User talk:GeorgDerReisende|talk]]) 17:12, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
-::::: I picked Euronext because it's France, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, and the UK (but not LSE). But how about this:
+::Understood [[User:GeorgDerReisende|Georg]].  Where do you think I should have gone for my Monday morning hashpoint before 8:30? [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 18:59, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
-:::::* The most recent opening of the Dow Jones, Nikkei and Euronext ''multiplied together''. The "when" still needs to be taken into account, so say 10am New York for the Americas, 10am London for Europe/ME/Africa and 10am Tokyo for Asia. -Lucky
-:::::: Great idea, Lucky; I was actually thinking of something like this as I drifted to sleep last night. This neatly keeps the benefit of the coordinate not coming into being until a certain time, but allows three such times per day; is a global solution; and still leaves weekends with a long period of stability (assuming Nikkei and Euronext are closed on weekends -- I'm not familiar with them). Local meet-up times will still be a matter of local convention, for various definitions of local.
+::As far as I can see we have two different approaches. Step 1 would be to keep each hashpoint valid until new coordinates are published for a given graticule. To do this we just have to update some Wiki pages, but no Implementations have to be changed. Just select the cooridnates of the previous day and have a nice expedition.
-:::::: One caveat: I'd say they should be added rather than multiplied. Adding would make it insensitive to different ways of multiplying.
+::However one might still consider this unfair because at 9:30 EST the new coordinates become instantly valid with zero preparation time whereas east of 30W we can prepare in advance. If we wanted to amend this we would have to make more severe changes to the algorithm. --[[User:Solli|Solli]] ([[User talk:Solli|talk]]) 09:15, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
-:::::: See [[#DOW_source]] for discussion of opening vs closing values. —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 19:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:::::: Lucky, perhaps I misunderstand your "when" point. I think you need to rely on a time when the value stops fluctuating and can be agreed on (such as closing). So I don't suppose you meant to look at a market during a time while it is open. If you meant to hold off performing the calculation until 10 o'clock with a value from an earlier time, I don't see the point, and anyway people are going to perform the calculation as soon as the inputs are available. Besides, that's half the cool factor: jumping on it.  =-)  —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 20:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::For the time being we can encourage these kinds of PROTEST hashes until something gets worked out. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 04:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
-: there are currently, I believe, 6 'areas' covering The Netherlands, but we could always decide to rotate fairly between those coordinates - with, as a bonus, we have a backup location when one is unreachable. I'd say, leave that to the locals. -[[User:DWizzy|DWizzy]]
+Did you realize that in the [https://www.xkcd.com/426/ Original Comic] it says: "That date's '''(or the most recent)''' Dow opening"? Before 9:30 EST the most recent Dow opening is that of the previous (business) day. Taken literally this means that in western time zones there are two coordinates per day, one before 9:30 EST and one after. However I assume that [[User:Randall|Randall]]'s intention was to have one set of coordinates for each day and graticule. So IMHO it makes sense to use the previous (business) day's coordinates until a new Dow Jones opening value is published, as proposed above. I'm going to add this to the [[Known Issues]] and update [[The Algorithm]] page if there are no strong opinions against it. --[[User:Solli|Solli]] ([[User talk:Solli|talk]]) 09:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
-I am in favor of the "use the DOW of the previous day" solution. This makes the tool simpler, and the point distribution around the globe uniform. - Sec
+:I am going to say no to that concerning [[The Algorithm]].  We don't want someone like [[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]], [[User:NWoodruff|NWoodruff]], [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] or [[User:Pastori|Pastori]] who have all done more than one-hundred points to find out one morning that their algorithm changed.  Get approval from a couple of them including [[User:GeorgDerReisende|GeorgDerReisende]] who has already expressed displeasure and then change it.
-: I'm not quite sure what to make of it. For Central Europe (I'm Dutch myself) and everywhere else I can't see why we wouldn't just pick a stock market on twelve hours distance from the Dow. As for Dutch meetups I'm all for cycling through the different areas as to get more people at one meet. [[User:Nazgjunk|Nazgjunk]] 09:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:: No, honestly. You want to meet at Saturday, 4PM UTC (or whatever european time zone)? Get the latest Dow opening before Saturday, 4PM you-local-time. Just works.
-::: Problem is that the sample calculator uses [http://finance.google.com/finance/historical?cid=983582&startdate=%25s&enddate=%25s&histperiod=daily this page] to grab the data of the Dow Jones. And that one will only show the opening price after the Dow has closed already. At least, according to my clock the Dow Jones is already open, and it still only shows the data of May 20th. - MadJo
-: Using the value available at the time of the calculation looks the way to go
-Why not use the Dow value from (meetup_date - 1 year)? That lets you generate a meetup spot up to 364 days in the future (leap year pedagogues, keep it to yourself), and time zones become irrelevant.
+:: I don't get you point. Past expeditions will stay valid. And everything that is considered a valid expedition now will continue to be valid in the future. The only thing I want to change is to create the additional possibility to go hashing west of W30 before the Wall Street opens. Isn't that exactly what you wanted to promote with your protest hash? But yeah, I'll try to get feedback from the 100+ users before I edit any page. --[[User:Solli|Solli]] ([[User talk:Solli|talk]]) 11:27, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
-Is the DOW/timezone thing a problem for Saturday meetups in Europe? Saturday's coordinates are generated from Friday's DOW opening value, which is available at 0930 EDT (1430 BST in the UK) on the Friday. So there's over 24 hours notice for the meetup coordinates in Europe. - Ytaya
+:Wow, I never thought I'd be summoned for something like this before, and I appreciate you all value my opinion. :) For me, I believe Solli summed it up perfectly:
+::''"Did you realize that in the Original Comic it says: "That date's (or the most recent) Dow opening"? ... Taken literally this means that in western time zones there are two coordinates per day, one before 9:30 EST and one after."''
+:Whether you allow the carry over from the day before or calculate a 'fresh' hash before the DOW opens for the day, you will have 2 hashes available in one day. This can get confusing and much more difficult in writing up/reading the Expedition reports since the date on the report is not the same as the day you went. Because of all this, my vote on this idea/rule change is a firm and unyielding NO. I don't mind the current setup of today's rules: that it is good from when the hash is published to midnight. That keeps the dates/hash calcs very simple and easy to understand. Unfair? Somewhat, I have to wait 9.5 hours into the day for my daily hash, but I still have over 150 expeditions under these rules(and NWoodruff has over 500 in the same time timezone). Plus, I still have most of the day to plan and the entire evening to go if I'm able and it's accessible. No, we don't have Sunrise or the first Midnight Hash, I can't get a hash on the way TO work(during the week), but these aren't detrimental to the game, and it makes it that much more satisfying to get when you finally do. Yosef, as for your Protest hash, I'm sorry but like GeorgDerReisende said, that is already defined as a [[Retro expedition|Retro-Hash]] for Sunday. That being said, if we are going to discuss a global 30W Rule, I am fully on board as, in my mind, it meets my 'simplicity' rules as well as being a lot more fair. Yes, we would slightly lose the spontaneity of it (but only West of 30W) and that is a minor negative well overbalanced by the positives of enacting such a rule. [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] ([[User talk:Pedalpusher|talk]]) 15:27, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
-: Ehm, you have a point here. We seem to have collectively forgotten that the Saturday calculation uses Fridays numbers. - Sparky.
+:[[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] Note how I defined it.  It doesn't say anywhere on the page that the expedition was considered successful.  That's why I called it a protest hash and not a true hash.   What is most important to me is that there will not be a moment anywhere in the world that will be without a hashpoint.  That includes Australia at 1 AM.  I would prefer to go by UTC so that we can have keep things sane on timezone borders, but I understand your request for simplicity. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 19:49, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
-:: Yeah, that works for Saturdays but what about other days? Maybe the thing with the DOW from the previous day works, most news stations report about that anyway. - Kiwi
+:: [[User:Yosef|Yosef]], I understand what you are saying, but my point was that this type of expedition is already defined as a Retro-Expedition, whether or not you make it(and your's a successful one at that since you made it). How will changing the Timezone activation make things better? What exactly am I missing here? Honestly, I will vote against anything that has local hash-times (wherever local is for you) carry over into the next day. The only solution I can currently see (and would be willing to vote for) is a Global 30W rule. In that case, at your local time Midnight, the new hash (Derived from the Dow Opening the day before and presumably the current date) would activate and be valid for 24 hours, just like it currently does in Australia and everywhere else East of the 30W line. I'm hesitant to suggest this, but do we need a Proposed Changes to the Algorithm page were someone could fully explain the rules and methods of their change and maybe a Pros and Cons section to debate the merits of each suggestion? I'm going to poke a few West Coasters that I know have been active somewhat recently and have also done a lot of hashing in the past to get a few more comments here. [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] ([[User talk:Pedalpusher|talk]]) 21:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
-::: I'd suggest only doing the meeting on saturday, to increase the chances of meeting, possibly even with a smaller grid to reduce travel distances, and most people have to either work or go to school at 3PM on weekdays anyway. - Sparky
+:: [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] - Every fifteen degrees longitude there is a timezone change.  Most of these changes happen in the ocean or at international borders, but nonetheless there are places which are corner cases particularly in the United States, Canada, and Russia.  Some graticules have two time zones.  There are ocean graticules that have two different dates because of the international date line.  This all gets to be a little nutty, but if everyone used UTC time, then there would not be any question.  We could put up a sign that would be very clear as to when the hash would become activated in your time zone. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 08:55, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
-::::If we're only likely to meet people from our own graticule (and possibly neighbouring, watery graticules) then we only need a local convention. I agree with Ytaya, in the UK at least the Friday DOW opening for a Saturday meet 4pm local time or the previous day's opening for a week day seems to retain the elegance of the system. - Nick
+I've been out of hashing for too long and just returned. Utilizing a Global 30W rule may be the easiest to implement if a change is agreed. I "missed" a point because I was way that day and was able to hit it the next morning before the DOW opened. I counted it, however, I had a IRC conversation where the general thought was my run was a [[Retro expedition|Retro-Hash]] because of the day change. If you make it is in the eye of the beholder and usually that's the person on the expedition. If we are going to change, I think Global 30W rule is best. I also think the more productive hashers should have more of a say. If the hashing community can't come to an agreement, then the system as is should remain in place. [[User:Whoa Knock]] ([[User talk:Whoa Knock|talk]]) 03:00, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
+It sounds like the only thing that can be agreed upon is make the 30W rule for the entire world.  Anything more drastic would not have enough support. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 10:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
-I can't believe we are actually arguing about this. It says so in the comic itself: "That date's '''(or most recent)''' DOW opening". So, if the DOW hasn't opened yet, you use yesterday's opening. Simple as that. Why complicate it further? [[User:Arj|Arj]] 13:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:Has this not been summarized for formal vote yet? I am for a planetwide 30W rule change. For us in the states, any loss of the "spontaneity" requirement is balanced by actually having 24 hours to visit a geohashpoint for 7 days, not just 2. Now if only the "global" algorithm didn't produce so many poles... --[[User:Thomcat|Thomcat]] ([[User talk:Thomcat|talk]]) 13:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
-:The problem is the specifics around your phrase "hasn't opened yet".  Given a region where the figures become available half an hour before the meetup time, then either people take the previous day's value and meet up in a location which is technically incorrect by the time of the meetup, or you rule out anyone who cannot check the value, plan a journey and travel to the location within half an hour.  To me, the obvious solution is that the value used has to be defined as the value that was available at a fixed offset from the meetup time - for example six hours before.  But that complicates the JavaScript that pulls the figures, as mentioned above... --cfm
+Count me in favor of a global 30W rule. I feel as though points remaining valid for a 24 hour period is more in the spirit of the game than is rigidly adhering to calender days. [[User:Mystrsyko|Mystrsyko]] ([[User talk:Mystrsyko|talk]]) 04:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
-That would still leave some ambiguity for the area around the timezones that are 6 and 7 hours before EST, because the time of the meeting depends on which timezone the meeting takes place in. Again, there could be 2 meeting in different places, 1 hour apart within the same region, of no meeting at all. This could happen on every single day except Saturday, and thus would happen quite frequently. - Sparky
+I have to admit that I don't see this as being that unfair, but I also live someplace where we only lose 6.5 hours
+a day on weekdays.  Personally, if I only had the time to try make the previous day's hashpoint before
+work, I'd just go and mark it as a Retro, but I also live someplace where most of my expeditions end up as
+"No Trespassing."
+I think that trying to completely change the Algorithm is a bad idea.   Our tools don't seem to have a lot of
+support behind them - I seriously doubt they'll get updated to support something new, and then we'll really have a
+mess on our hands.  The easiest solution to my mind, which requires no changes to the tools,
+is to simply allow people to use the previous days coordinates
+until there are new ones available, which means this change will only come into play Mon-Fri local midnight until 9:30AM Eastern.  My next preference, except that it requires tools to change slightly is a global 30W rule, but I somehow
+expect that someone will be complaining that people on the West coast get more time to prepare for the expedition than people in Europe even though everyone gets a full 24 hours to go the hashpoint.  [[User:Jiml|Jiml]] ([[User talk:Jiml|talk]]) 23:13, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
-I guess the reason to use stock exchanges is that those numbers may be available to everyone even without the internet. If we don't care about people who don't have internet, it seems most logical to just make the server grab a true random number from somewhere every day or interval and use that. Then we are in control of the situation and can set it up however we want. - forest
+[[User:Jiml|Jiml]] has an excellent point.  I think I might start a page where we can keep inventory of all of our tools and how flexible they would be in the event of an algorithm change.  Please add to the list as you see fit. [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]]) 05:05, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
-Why not use yesterday's DOW opening *everywhere*?  This would have the pleasing result that you could have one destination for each midnight-midnight day and there would be no time when it wasn't defined. - Sarah
+Hm, the 24-hour rule sort of creates a new W30 issue. Only moves it a day! Let's keep in mind that this is not an activity where points scored should count and be flexible by judging when a hashpoint has been reached. But you have to actually reach the hashpoint within a reasonable time after it was published. And after all, the hasher has to live with the fact that (s)he cheated in order to be able to "add a point to heir total". [[User:Palmpje|Palmpje]] ([[User talk:Palmpje|talk]]) 14:47, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
+Agreed [[User:Palmpje|Palmpje]].  Someone updated my PROTEST hash to make it a successful one.  I do not think that is appropriate and we should wait for consensus before that is done. - [[User:Yosef|Yosef]] ([[User talk:Yosef|talk]])
-How about there's a fixed time at which the algorithm is run, for example 10am local time. That way it's standardised as to whether you need to take the day before's or today's (i.e. has it passed 9:30AM EST yet by 10AM in your local time). This also means everyone has at least 6 hours notice before meeting, so we don't get the issue like in the UK where it's available at 2:30pm and I'd struggle to make places in 90 mins given I go by train and bike everywhere. If we stray too much into different stock market figures or different timings for things, I'd fear we'd split the community over which version to go with and people go to different places on the same day, missing each other. I think a standard and an agreement is important above all. --[[User:AvengerPenguin|AvengerPenguin]] 12:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+== The McKay proposal ==
-If the coordinates can be calculated further in advance (ideally a week, since most meetings will be weekly and most people wouldn't have time to attend more) people would be better able to schedule meetings. UK train tickets are cheaper when bought in advance. I also second comment below mine.-- waq (forgot to sign the first time)
+: I've always thought the way we treat it on this wiki is kind of wrong. Here's what the algorithm says: "That date's (or most recent) dow opening." So here's what I propose:
+<blockquote>'''In order to qualify for being at a hash, the dow opening must be the most recent dow opening at the time you are at the hash (or for a dow opening later on that calendar day if you somehow know that)'''</blockquote>
+: This proposal is backwards compatible, in that I believe it'll still work for most everyone in the current rules, for at least good portion of the day, and always gives you at least 24 hours to plan at least one hash.
+: Examples. I currently live in California, so I follow Pacific Time. This means that for me, the Dow opens at 6:30 AM. Which means that on a Tuesday, once that dow opening is revealed. I have 24 hours to plan up to two hashes:
+:* Today's date with the current opening
+:** If I choose this, I have to go before midnight, because otherwise, the date will be wrong
+:*Tomorrow's date with the current opening
+:** If I chose this, I must do it before 6:30 AM tomorrow. (Jim thinks it also has to be after midnight tomorrow)
+:I actually like sleep so I will rarely choose the latter option, and that's convenient because the tools will work well this way today for most users?
+:I think it actually follows the rules, because it says "That date's (or most recent) dow opening". According to that rule at 6:29 AM, I have two choices, that day's dow opening, which I can't know yet (unless I'm [[Bill Gates achievement|Bill Gates]]), or the most recent dow opening, which was yesterday's. At 6:31 I only have one choice, because that day's dow opening is the most recent.
+:I do admit that for some people they will get their changeover happening at inopportune times, but I guess the biggest "difference" is that people for whom the dow opens in the evening can get up to two hashes a day during reasonable hours, but I don't think it's that big of a deal, and I'm the one being shorted? Am I missing something?  [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] ([[User talk:Mckaysalisbury|talk]]) 04:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
-I notice this still hasn't been resolved, so I'll suggest a further simple solution. If everyone everywhere just replaces "today's Dow Jones opening" with "yesterday's Dow Jones closing" then everything works fine. [[Special:Contributions/131.111.202.214|131.111.202.214]] 15:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+::This sounds like a reasonable approach for me, though it does require updates to our tools to use the "newly available" hashpoint.   I added a few words to your description above to touch on a point I think you're in agreement on:   Basically, there is only one hashpoint active at any time, but a future one might be known for planning purposes.  [[User:Jiml|Jiml]] ([[User talk:Jiml|talk]]) 03:31, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
+:::Yes, changes would be desirable, but they wouldn't be required, unless they wanted to see the additional point? [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] ([[User talk:Mckaysalisbury|talk]]) 19:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
+::I shall say straight off that I don't particularly like this solution.  It is removing one point of "discrimination" (some people don't have a valid hash point at certain times) by introducing another (some people now get two hash points per day, others get one).  I am in favour of solving the first, but not at the expense of the second.
+:::Who doesn't get two in my new proposal? I think the number is zero, but I may not be thinking of all cases. [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] ([[User talk:Mckaysalisbury|talk]]) 19:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
+::::Hash o'clock is 14:30 GMT (in the winter, at least).  Australia's Northern Territory is in the GMT+09:30 timezone and does not use daylight savings time, so hash o'clock there coincides with midnight for half the year.  There might be others for parts of the year.  But in any case, some places (Aus and NZ particularly, but also to a lesser extent the west coast of North America) would have one hashpoint for a very short time during the night, and a second one for the entire rest of the day.  Other places (particularly in Europe) would have two hashpoints that change over around lunchtime.  To me (in Europe) that seems more confusing than the current "one hashpoint each day" state of things, and would seem to be an avoidable consequence of changing the rules to fix the "no hashpoint for some of the day" problem that this discussion was intending to fix. — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 14:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
-== Nearby Points? ==
+::[Edit: I no longer support this suggestion, or probably any solution involving rules depending on timezones, because of later discussion.  I leave it here simply for historical completeness. — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 15:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)] My preferred solution would be: '''"At midnight (local time) at the beginning of each day, a new hashpoint comes into play.  Its coordinates are calculated using the Algorithm along with the current date and the most recent Dow opening.  This hashpoint remains the current hashpoint for as long as the date remains the same."'''  So a new hashpoint comes into play at midnight local time ''everywhere''.  It is calculated using what, at the time, is the most recent Dow opening (thus keeping as far as possible within the spirit of the original idea).  This hashpoint lasts for 24 hours everywhere (or 23/25, if daylight savings time changes!).  Everyone will be able to calculate this hashpoint before it comes into play (or, at the very least, at the instant it comes into play).  Each location on Earth has exactly one current hashpoint at all times.  Thoughts?  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 21:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
+:::While that may be your favorite, it doesn't seem to be relevant to my new proposal, and it also introduces substantially new rules. [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] ([[User talk:Mckaysalisbury|talk]]) 19:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
+::::Crox has pointed out the problem with it, below.  I'm not sure why it's substantially different and/or not relevant -- it's simply another variation on exactly what data is fed to the algorithm and how long the result is valid for. — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 14:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
-I forgot to mention that the algorithm doesn't necessarily find the point closest to your present location. Ofcourse, the user can manually select the other regions around his location to find the closest meeting point, but it would be nice if the google earth app would show the 4 closest locations. That way, the chance of meeting different people is greater, because any user would be in 9 regions instead of just one. This could also be useful if the closest point in unreachable, where the user could choose to go to the next closest meeting point. - Sparky
+:::[Generally, I'm not in favour of any change at all, see also my comments above.] This solution appears interesting at a first glance, but that would mean the different implementations would need to integrate timezone databases, complete with [[wikipedia:Daylight saving time|DST]] data etc. Also, there are many graticules that contain areas within different time zones. Take for example [[43,131]]. Half of it is in China (UTC+8), the other half in Russia (here UTC+10). This means in Winter (and only in Winter, neither China nor Russia have DST), hash o'clock happens at 22:30 local time in the Chinese part of the graticule, but at 00:30 local time in the Russian part of the graticule. Which DOW value do you consider to calculate the coordinates, which are valid for the whole graticule? the 30W rule is MUCH easier, and still it takes quite some effort to implement it correctly... Btw, this is precisely why the 30W rule was defined that way nearly 10 years ago, see the discussion here: [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1#Europe_Time_Zones_problem]]. --[[User:Crox|Crox]] ([[User talk:Crox|talk]]) 03:38, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
-: Well, it depends ... generally you'll have one population center surrounded by fairly empty areas.  I think we'll be able to better answer this question after a week's experience. --[[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 07:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
-:: That, also, depends on where you live. The distance between two closest points horizontally or vertically is approximately 111km. The Netherlands is barely 200km wide. Especially in the western part of the country, which is the most densely populated, cities are rarely more than 15km apart. - Sparky
-: The thing with having one region is that you get to meet with the same people each time, which could be a good thing - since otherwise, you don't know who you're going to see again. (Though that could be seen as a plus, of course.) My region includes most of London, so in my case I'm probably going to get more people coming to the meet in my region than I am if I was to go to whatever was the closest on the particular day. - Kira. ([[Special:Contributions/74.52.15.98|74.52.15.98]] 13:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC))
-This is most excellent, I know I'm participating!  -Sir_Lewk
+:::I'd like to start the hashpoint according to UTC.  That way, we don't have to mess with graticules being split between hashpoints.  If we can't do that then at least we should be lenient with people who are in inconvenient graticules. ''(unsigned comment by [[user:Yosef]])''
-Would it be possible to include the route-planning feature in the map? For those without navigation systems, that would be very useful. - Sparky.
+::::Crox, that's a beautiful example of a problem that I hadn't considered!  Well done for finding it.  I'll think again.  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 09:20, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
-I'm from Australia, is there any chance of this being implemented in the Pacific Region as well? It sounds like a great idea. - Zorg
+::I firmly reject this proposal. Timezones are a nightmare for programmers, don't bring them into the algorithm. Crox brought up an excellent specific point. Additionally, hash o'clock is 15:30 for me. This is a time when I could be in the middle of an expedition, and it would be bad if the goal changes then.
-:This does work for the Australian Region. I'm in Sydney, as of July I'm getting on board --[[User:Phraedus|Phraedus]] 10:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::I recognize that people living in 180W-30W graticules have a disadvantage over 30W-180E graticule users. I'd accept change, but not in this form. Finally, any change needs to be supported by Randall, not only the community. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 13:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
+:::Being a programmer who has had to deal with timezones a lot in the past, I completely agree with Fippe on their point about them being a nightmare —the current status quo regarding time of hash receipt is tricky enough, but manageable —(09:30 EST/EDT) is still a single ''point in time'' across the whole globe after all so everyone gets their coördinates at the same time, just not at the same wall-clock time. [[User:Saxbophone|Saxbophone]] ([[User talk:Saxbophone|talk]]) 13:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
-Two thoughts for improvements:
+==Graticules without weekday geohashes==
-* Maybe use a smaller step size ? If you do not own a car then the destination can be unreachable. Also in Europe (where i am) the polpulation density is in general higher, so one grid cell might encompass two major cities.
+There are several areas in the world that never have weekday geohashes. They are located in the east of the 180th longitude, but west of the date line. [[wikipedia:File:International Date Line.png|Here's a map.]] I'm not just talking about water here, the land areas exist and some of them are populated considerably:
-: We discussed this quite a bit -- currently, the average driving distance is something like 45-50 miles.  But if you're trying to have an xkcd meetup for your city, it'd only compound the problem of cities being split up.  Half your friends would go to one and half to another.  It's already bad enough in DC and Chicago. --[[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 09:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
-:: This, ofcourse, strongly depends on the population density (or actually, the XKCD reader density). If you make the regions smaller, the chance of 2 or more people meeting there decreases. As people fail to meet, they stop trying, further reducing the change of a successful meeting for those who try at a later date. - Sparky.
-:: And L.A., Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Denver... - Cahlroisse
-::*45-50 miles is too much for nonprofessional cyclists, are we encouraging petrol burning? Too bad for the ecosystem :P [[Special:Contributions/80.36.82.38|80.36.82.38]] 10:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-::: I agree with your point about encouraging petrol burning, however, at some (maybe most) places, such large grid size is needed to have any significantly non-zero chance of meeting somebody. The problem seems to be that there is no clear one-size-fits-all grid size. Implementing a variable grid size sort of eliminates the elegance of the algorithm. Maybe this is just a stage we have to go though; you come up with a simple idea, which grows ever more complicated as it's developed, until you end up with a simple solution - Sparky.
+* Russia: [[wikipedia:Chukchi Peninsula|Chukotka]] and eastern [[wikipedia:Wrangel Island|Wrangel Island]]
-::::*I'd propose a cell size proportional to the population density. I agree it undermines elegance and simplicity, but sometimes (most of the times?) simpler solutions are just not satisfactory. Besides, seeing the cell sizes changing along with the local population density has a coolness of its own. --[[Special:Contributions/80.36.82.38|80.36.82.38]] 14:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+* Kiribati: [[wikipedia:Phoenix Islands|Phoenix Islands]] and [[wikipedia:Line Islands|Line Islands]]
+* Tuvalu: No land areas, but waters east of [[wikipedia:Nukulaelae|Nukulaelae]] Island
+* [[wikipedia:Tokelau|Tokelau]]: completely
+* [[wikipedia:Samoa|Samoa]]: completely
+* [[wikipedia:Tonga|Tonga]]: completely
+* France: [[wikipedia:Wallis and Futuna|Wallis and Futuna]]
+* [[wikipedia:Fiji|Fiji]]: The eastern part
+* New Zealand: [[wikipedia:Kermadec Islands|Kermadec Islands]] and [[wikipedia:Chatham Islands|Chatham Islands]]
+* [[wikipedia:Time in Antarctica|Antarctica]]: Partially
-:::: The ecological implications of petrol burning aside, i just don't have a car ;-) But I agree with you. To allow actual meetings to happen, you need a big grid size, especially in the beginning. -Mucki
+Hash o'clock in these areas is a few hours after midnight ''on the next day''. This means that geohashes are only reachable on days that the NYSE is not open: Saturdays, Sundays, and Dow Holidays. The [[W30]]-Rule does not protect these areas since they are in the western hemisphere.
-::::: I don't have a car either, because I far prefer a motorcycle. I don't really see any options that would enable the use of public transportation without sacrificing to many other properties of the proposed system. I'm afraid the only thing you can do is wait until the meeting point is within a reachable distance. If you can travel 20km in any direction (by bicycle, for example), about 9.8% of the meeting points will be within your range. - Sparky
+How do we approach this? I don't know about any geohashers from these areas. The only graticules with pages are [[Chatham Island, New Zealand|Chatham Island]] and [[Pitt Island, New Zealand|Pitt Island]], and they seem to be inactive. Is this a problem that should be solved, or one that can be ignored? --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 10:51, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
-:::::: Perhaps the solution should include people developing their own cell sizes on the city pages to allow for better distribution based on population. For example I can see that there might well be demand enough for both a San Francisco city based cell (based entirely within the city limits) and a larger cell that would include the surrounding areas. At present the cell for SF includes the penninsula far more than it includes the city and has a rather large amount of water as well. Since we have such a high degree of population density, however, it would likely not be a problem to cause such splits. Clearly the issue that's really raised here is that a one-size fits all approach based on pure geography without regard for population is not necessarily the best one. - Belgand
+:I guess it's a slightly grey area, owing to the inexact wording of the algorithm, but the Dow *does* have an opening price on the desired day, even though the local time in New York is the previous day.  You'd use the date in your graticule with the opening price for the Dow at whatever point on your local date the Dow opens.  Example: It's Wednesday 2 February in a graticule in the GMT+13 time zone (which I think is 18 hours ahead of New York).  From the point of view of that graticule, the Dow would open at 03:30.  At that time point, it would be 09:30 on Tuesday 1 February in New York, but that doesn't matter.  To calculate our hashpoint, we would use the current date in our timezone (2 February) and the value of that Dow opening.
-* I think the algorithm should include the base coordinates (the integer portion of your gps location, or maybe even some secret number?) in the hash, otherwise the meetup points form a regular grid, offset by a fixed value from the base coordinates. - Mucki
+:I think this is acceptable under the current wording for graticules west of -30 longitude: "if there is no opening price for the Dow on the desired day..." because either (a) there isn't an opening price: the Dow opens after the desired day has ended, and we therefore use the previous or most recent trading day -- which we'll obtain at 03:30 when it's announced; or (b) there is an opening price, and it's the one that happens at 03:30 regardless of the difference in dates between New York and our current graticule.
-: I don't really see why that's a problem.  In fact, it has a couple benefits -- if one coord is all the way to the north of a graticule and you're at the south end, it means the coord in the graticule to the south will be close to you.  --[[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 09:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
-: I'd agree; I don't see what's wrong with a regular grid of possible meeting locations, while the upside is that the nearest location is at most 1.4 * 111 / 2 = 78.5km away (half the diagonal of a 111 * 111 square), assuming it is reachable, ofcourse. - Sparky.
-:: I just thought I should add something: this is, ofcourse, only true on the equator, because the distance between the medians reduces as one moves away from the equator. - Sparky
+:The other way to approach it would be to say that graticules west of the dateline are defined for algorithm purposes as being "east of -30 longitude".  Then the rule would be to use the current local date and the most recent Dow opening at midnight at the start of the day, which for our example graticule would be the Dow opening on New York date Monday 31 January.
-:: Well, it is not really a problem in itself, but I find that a very regular spacing of the points somehow diminishes the beauty it gets from being otherwise completely random and unpredictable. -Mucki
+:Either way, it's not a problem which is likely to occur often (it's been ignored for the last ten years), and I'd be happy with any approach to a solution, as long as it was reasonably thought through and didn't take the mick.  I think both of the suggestions above are reasonable and would be acceptable locally. — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 09:16, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
-::: I would agree with that, however, this does guarantee that there is a meeting point relatively close to you (regardless of reachability).
+::As an addendum to the above, it's just occurred to me that the date line does not always conveniently follow graticule boundaries, and therefore whichever approach we take, there are always going to be some difficulties where using the algorithm west of the date line generates one hashpoint and using the algorithm east of the date line generates a different hashpoint '''for the same graticule at the same time'''.  This is an artefact of the algorithm using the local date as one of the parameters used to generate the hashpoint.  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 09:21, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
-:::: Except if you live on the Greenwich meridian, and then occasionally the shortest distance will be an entire box-width west or east. And if you live in the N-S centre of a graticule, this maxes out as the diagonal of a 111 * 111/2 rectangle, or 124km. (sucks to live at 0,0... in the ocean south of Ghana...) In the UK, it's more like 111 * 67, an 87km diagonal.
+:I agree that the W30 rule should apply eastward to the international date line rather than the antimeridian (or simply accept the proposal to always use a prior date's DJIA opening price everywhere). [[User:Robartsd|Robartsd]] ([[User talk:Robartsd|talk]]) 2023-08-12 17:47 UTC
-Oddly, where I live (Boreham, Chelmsford, Essex, UK), apparently whatever day it is, I should be meeting in the exact same place in the Thames estuary (I've tried about 5 different dates). Is there something amiss?[[Special:Contributions/91.107.26.104|91.107.26.104]]
+= Older Topics =
-: It seems to be working fine.  Different coordinate for every day this past week in the 51, 0 (east) graticule that contains Chelmsford. Any more details on the problem?  --[[User:Xkcd|Xkcd]] 09:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
+== Organization / automation questions ==
-hi there,
+So, we now have date pages ([[2008-06-07]]), date-bound templates for the day's expedition images ({{tl|Expedition Images/2008-06-07}}), categories for the day's meetups ([[:Category:Meetup on 2008-06-07]] -- not all of which have been 'created', even though most if not all are in use).  We also have the "Recent and Upcoming Coordinates" and "Gallery of Recent Expeditions" sections on the front page.  There are likely other daily-maintenance-type things I'm not aware of (archiving?  Creation of the supercategories like [[:Category:Meetup in 2008-06]]?).
-about one thid of my sector is covered with water. are you going to do any sea/ocean detection?
-:Could I suggest adjusting the main wiki page to say if your meetup is covered by water, click on the next closest square away from the water? Might solve some problems --[[User:Phraedus|Phraedus]] 10:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-This may have been covered already, but i'm confused about how the center of mass calculation is working. No doubt a cost function of some kind, but the question is why land mass isn't taken into account, or so it would seem! For example: where i am (Southampton, Hampshire, UK) the center of pass seems to be somewhere in the ocean. Now i realise this is probably due to the isle of white right below southampton. Possible solution, if the area covered by the center of pass holds more than...i don't know...40% water, adjust some variable to force a reduction in granularity. Mainly because the geohashes for the past 4 days have been in the middle of the sea and the reason is clearly just the odds given the amount of water in southampton's center of mass. Also, i've got a python implementation of this appy going, but i don't have access to the center of masses, though this might be me just being silly. Are these available somewhere in a handy dandy XML format?, cheers - [[User:Sinjax|SinJax]]
+I'd be more than willing to work on automating some/all of the above, if people are interested -- I know tjtrumpet2323 mentioned that he doesn't mind doing the manual update of the front-page coordinates, and that it would likely be handled by a template eventually (once the mediawiki daily coords implementation was done) anyway.  I've been playing with api.php a bit recently, and most of the automation is reasonably simple.  But I don't want to step on any toes (explicitly including rpm's, since I'm not sure how kindly he'll take to people running bots against the wiki).
-: The squares are the zones bounded by latitude and longitude lines, nothing more.  This means the configurations are sub-optimal for some cities, and there will be various conventions for dealing with those.
-: Oh i see! Talk about over complicating things in my mind :). And the lat/long for each square is the center of the square i assume? or what? Also is it cool if i use the dow data avaiable at http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/ for my python implementation directly? or should i contact another webservice somewheres? [[User:Sinjax|SinJax]]
-:: The boundaries of the zones run along the exact longitude and latitude lines closest to your location. - Kira. ([[Special:Contributions/74.52.15.98|74.52.15.98]] 13:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC))
-I live nearly on top of a confluence (northeast of Indianapolis).  Would you say that I could choose one of four grid areas, so that I don't have to travel too far? [[User:Halcyone1024|Halcyone1024]]
+Additionally: It would be trivial, once images are categorized by meetup date (very few are currently) to randomly swap out the pictures that have been picked for the day's Expedition Images.  But this introduces the question of whether a second (editorial, not automatic) category should be created for "best of the day" to use as the pool (assuming the consensus is "automation is good", rather than "keep it editorial, like it already is"), instead of pictures like [[:Image:2008-06-01_37_-121-Tapin-2.JPG]].
-Pittsburgh is annoyingly (or beneficially) split down the middle(the very middle 40.441419, -79.977292)
+Thoughts?
-People here have a point about population density. In some places in the world everyone has a car, but in other places a lot of people don't. I almost think that separate areas should have entirely separate rules or something. But again it all depends on how complicated it should be. It could be super simple like it is now and work okish, or be super complicated and maybe work better or maybe not. Personally I currently live in the middle of nowhere so there aren't enough people to make it work, even if we were willing to drive quite a ways and use large graticules. I have also lived in other places  where car ownership is low and for most people on most days the meeting point would be out of reach. - forest
+--[[User:Tapin|Tapin]] 20:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-==Polar coordinates?==
+: I'd like to see a lot more automation done, and was considering writing my own bots to do some of it.  But considering my other workload, I'm not sure when that will happen.  One thing I'd be worried about is creating pages just to fill in the dates, without actually having content for them.  Your comment about editorial content also stands - any bots should be willing to accept imposed content. [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-I've played a bit with the map, and found out that my town, Freiburg, is right at the edge of a grid (48°000), and that the grid is fairly large. An alternative implementation could use city centers as fixed points and calculate polar coordinates (distance and angle) from the "random" seed. -- tillwe [[Special:Contributions/132.230.104.57|132.230.104.57]] 10:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:: The main reason pages such as [[Template:Expeditions/2008-06-12]] exist is to allow inclusion on pages such as [[2008-06]].  Now that the date pages pretty much only contained templated-in content, they're practically unnecessary.  However, from a template-coding standpoint, [[Template:Date nav]] is easier to code when the page titles are simple, like [[2008-06-12]].  Does anyone know if there's a way of transcluding (templating) pages in the Main namespace?  ''(I have more thoughts on this section's topic as a whole, but have to leave for now.)''  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 15:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
-: I think this issue is deeper mate. It would seem that the grid implementation is remarkably unsatisfactory when it comes to places in europe and especially england, however, a random distance from city centers wouldn't work very well in sparse areas like america. Some concept of centre of population is required here. [[User:Sinjax|SinJax]]
+:::You can transclude anything, not just templates. Use <nowiki>{{:Main Page}}</nowiki> to transclude the main page, for example. [[User:Mike.lifeguard|Mike.lifeguard]] 00:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
+:::: Thank you, [[User:Mike.lifeguard|Mike.lifeguard]].  I didn't realise the colon notation extended to transclusion.  I think when I create the date pages for the weekend in a few hours' time, I'll just create YYYY-MM-DD pages and not bother with Template:Expeditions/YYYY-MM-DD.  I'd be willing to go back through the three weeks of pages and move data around... as well as to clean up the includes... seeing how I did 90% of them to begin with.  Any thoughts?  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 06:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
-The problem with living near an edge is non-existent, I think. The maximum distance to the closest point is always half the length of the diagonal of a grid cell. - Sparky
+::This is a year-old question but I've never seen this answer given, and I think it might be a good compromise between automatic selection of unsuitable images and frequent adventurers hogging the front page.  When uploading pictures, add something like a '''Nominated for front page''' category to your showpiece picture, and the automation randomly displays no more than one such nominated picture from each expedition for any given date. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 15:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
-I think we should try to preserve the simplicity and elegance of the algorithm, which, in it's basic form, relies on only 3 pieces of information: the date, the random seed (stock exchange), and the integral part of your location. Adding information like databases of population density would completely ruin it, if you ask me. You might as well include information about computer use and the percentage of the population that can read english, as there are things that strongly influence the XKCD reader density. - Sparky
+=== Google Maps API ===
+Per [http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/27/google_maps_api_no_longer_free/ The Register's article], access to the Google Maps API is going to cost money.  Is there already a plan for how this site will handle that?  Get Randall to beg?  Find some sympathetic geohashers who are also Google employees?  Both?
-Maybe we could use a smaller grid size, and have a convention that in more scarcely populated areas, only the even numbered ones are used, or use the ones closest to city centers or something. We don't have to deal with all the cases in the calculation algorithm, we could have the user execute part of the "algorithm". However, the idea is that the user can't really choose where to go. If the user has any control, it should be limited (at the moment, the user can ofcourse choose any of the ~40000 reachable points on the planet) - Sparky
+--[[User:UncleOp|UncleOp]] 14:00, 27 October 2011 (EDT)
-: Good call that sounds workable, fixes the problem in southampton anyways :) [[User:Sinjax|SinJax]]
-== Python-CGI-JSON-o-Rama implementation ==
+=== Automated Transclusion Implemented ===
-Hey so i've made a python version of the reference implementation that returns a JSON parseable object containing the lat/long when given a date, xloc and yloc. It uses the XKCD cache of dow values. I'll put it online in the next 5 mins :D
+I did some automating/optimising stuff over the weekend.  The <code>Template:Expeditions/YYYY-MM-DD</code> pages are to be completely discontinued from 17 June, as meetups are now included on the date pages themselves (<code>YYYY-MM-DD</code>, ''e.g.'', [[2008-06-16]]).  I even went back and copied stuff over for continuity's sake.  As far as the image gallery templates go, I automated a [[Template:Recent Images|template/script]] to show the current (UTC) day and the three prior for use on [[Main Page]].  It uses the new syntax <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Expedition Images|Expedition Images]]<nowiki>|YYYY-MM-DD}}</nowiki></code> which includes <code>Template:Expedition Images'''/'''YYYY-MM-DD</code> (note the slash), along with the appropriate header (based on page context) if the template exists, or a "start this gallery"-type message if it doesn't.  It also provides a "direct edit" link to the template from the date pages. --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 05:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
-[http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ss06r/GeoHashing/cgi-bin/geohashing.py Here] it is, fairly simple actually, hope someone finds it useful :)
+: '''Thoughts?'''  You may note that I opted not to provide a "direct edit" link in instances where <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Expedition Images|Expedition Images]]<nowiki>|YYYY-MM-DD}}</nowiki></code> are transcluded on [[Main Page]], more so out of fear of the page's visibility than anything.  I suppose that most potential spambots would give up on the write-protected page and not follow any "direct edit" link we'd put right on that page, but you never know.  I would be perfectly willing to put such a link back into the template if consensus deems wise (''i.e.'', people agree here) or if convention deems necessary (''i.e.'', people get fed up with hunting for an edit link).  My initial fears could be totally ridiculous, and I'm totally willing to admit that.  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 05:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
-=== Update ===
+:: I like it very much, awesome effort sir. The 'add your own photo' is pretty clearly findable on the YYYY-MM-DD pages. If that is not enough, then a comment in the source on the Main_Page directing people appropriately should be the next step IMHO. See how it fares? :)  --[[User:Nemo|Nemo]] 11:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
-I've tried to make it classify the region recommended for a particular day using the euclidian distance of the colour of the image provided by Google Maps
-The code is on the link above, tell me what you think :)
+:: Only current thought now... the automatic 'start the gallery' link means the previous days gallery (with the heklpful comments) don't get copied over... I wonder if people are just more likely to blindly start a gallery now rather than copy the comment hints too? I don't think think content can be automated into there though can it? May not be a problem anyway, wait and see? --[[User:Nemo|Nemo]] 11:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
+:: This isn't a show stopper, but I just discovered a timing point. We here in the east side of the 30W rule have pics for today already uploaded (8:20am local time, 17th June), but it's still 40minutes before UTC rolls over to the 17th and the frontpage gets the 'create a gallery for the 17th' type link. No biggie, it just limits our bragging rights! ;P --[[User:Nemo|Nemo]] 22:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
-[[User:Sinjax|SinJax]]
+::: Because of the limited number of morning-time meetups, I figured that 00:00 UTC was still a reasonable time to switch over because, as [[Template:Recent Images]] says, it's "reasonably mid-day for the easternmost time zones," i.e., 12:00 or 13:00 in New Zealand depending on [[wikipedia:Daylight Saving Time|DST]].  Not to mention, it's '''immensely''' easier to program a switch at 00:00 UTC than at any other time on this wiki.  Photos uploaded to the designated gallery before 00:00 UTC still get to be at the top of the images section for a full 24 hours, so yeah, it really ''isn't'' a big deal.  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 18:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
-: Cool!  I was thinking of making it act as a web service, but for reference implementation it's more important to be simple than useful :) [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 14:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:::: yup. I was just being needlessly pedantic. ;)  However, I do have a thought - thuogh don't know if it's possible. At the moment it displays the last 4 days, but in fact it seems more often than not, when I see it the currentday gallery is still waiting for the first image - so we only see three days. Can you check for the existance of the CURRENTDAY gallery - and if it doesn't exist, then also include CURRENTDAY -4 days. That way we get 4 days of actual pictures at all times (which I think works best, imho 3 is a little too small a showcase through the week). The -4days gallery automatically rolls off then not at 00:00UTC, but when the currentday gallery is created... :)  --[[User:Nemo|Nemo]] 00:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
-I mostly canabolised yours anyways! :) But yeh here you go. The webservice version returning AJAX from python can be found:
+::::: '''DONE and IMPLEMENTED.'''  See [[Template:Recent Images]] for specifics.  Great idea, Nemo.  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 03:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
-- [http://geohashing.electronicwar.net/cgi-bin/geohashing.py?date=2008-05-20&xloc=-1.395606&yloc=50.899837 AJAX geohashing]
-- [http://geohashing.electronicwar.net/ Example using the web service]
-The implementation also has the ability to tell you whether the particular area is water, park/forest or other. It does this by checking the colour on google maps and doing a thresholded euclidian distance check against the expected colours for those things. Also If its water it tells you its probably not accessible I wanna try to add more features like this, things like rating locations based on food and letting you say how far your willing to travel
+<s>There is a problem with the pages that show links to the expeditions by month: [[2008-08]] --[[User:Hermann|Hermann]] 20:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)</s>
-Thanks to [[User:Sigmund Fraud]] from the IRC channel for the space on his server with python installed - [[User:Sinjax|SinJax]]
+== re-organise the frontpage ==
+I'd like to propose that now that geohashing is a few months mature in the wider internet, that the need to explain what it is in detail on the top of the front page of the wiki is diminished.
-I've added my own python implementation to the main page (only 5 lines) -- lilac
+My humble opinion is that most people hitting the front wiki now are familiar with geohashing, or if new (less likely after that post-announcement rush), are more likely to be able to find detailed info after an initial introduction.
-: _very_ nice, im in awe! Though it must be said my concentration was usability as a web service and the implementation of that imaging stuff. Still. Very nice stuff. I love python :) - [[User:Sinjax | SinJax]]
-Added a shell script implementation to the main page (slightly shorter than the Python version; let the flames begin) -- [[User:gnomon | gnomon]]
+So how about a frontpage reorganise with this all in mind? Currently, the front page TOC looks like
-: deeply awesome; no flames from me -- [[User:lilac|lilac]]
+# What is this?
+# How it works
+## Official xkcd meetups
+## Unofficial invitations
+# Active Graticules
+# Implementations
+# Recent and Upcoming Coordinates
+# Gallery of Recent Expeditions
+# Known Issues
+# FAQ
+# Related Projects
-== Automatic land-water filter / other filters ==
+I propose that it be reformatted to something closer to these lines...
-[[Image:Geosplashing.png|right|thumb|geosplashing<br><small>[[User:Pyron Beta|Pyron Beta]] 12:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)</small>]]
+# What is this?
+# Who, Where, When and How?
+# Recent and Upcoming Coordinates
+# Gallery of Recent Expeditions
+# FAQ
-Does anyone know of open-source data for determining whether a coordinate lies on land or water?
+In this layout, 'how it works', 'official' and 'unofficial', 'active graticules' and 'implementations' would all be summarised to one smaller section of 'who, where, when and how'. Known issues should be linked merely as a FAQ question (maybe the first one). Finally, 'Related Projects' would be a link to, rather than inclusion of, the community portal.
-This would be an interesting feature in a calculator which tries to automate this a bit so one does not have to manually check against a geohash calculator every day.
-E.g:
+It'd probably be worth mocking up an actual example, but not for me at 1am... :)
-* every morning, calculate the days geohash
-* apply filters:
-** is coordinate on land?
-** is coordinate not in known list of bad regions (area 51, etc.)
-** other personal filters, e.g. is coordinate < n miles from home
-* if pass all filters, notify of coordinate, provide image of (or link to) map
---[[User:Recursive|Recursive]] 11:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+Further thoughts? (obviously what I'm proposing is a rather major change to the wiki navigation, so please, nobody make any such changes till there has been a chance for fair objections to be discussed.
+--[[User:Nemo|Nemo]] 15:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
-Hmm.  Seems like http://www.openstreetmap.org/ found this data somewhere, so presumably it's only a matter of digging up that separate dataset and parsing it.  Here's another mess of links: http://opensourcegis.org/
+: Personally, I do think that much of the boilerplate can be cut down and/or farmed out to links, '''e.g.''', the FAQ (though I haven't done that in my prototype, it could certainly be added).  Quite frankly, I think that just about everything static on [[Main Page]] should be transcluded anyway, if it's not going to change much.  That way, people wouldn't have to deal with the formatting code on any new Main Page.
-: OSM has some form of land detection, but it's a little crude. The readme  in [http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/rendering/tilesAtHome/tools/png2tileinfo/] should provide the details required. -- Edgemaster
+: I'd been thinking of this for a while, and have a Wikipedia-like prototype (with a tad bit of out-of-date content) at [[User:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page]] (actually most of the code is taken straight from their Main Page).  Please leave comments on my prototype at [[User talk:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page|its talk page]], while leaving comments on the general idea of reorganisation here.  Thanks!  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 15:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
-:: (of course, this isnt the exact data in the OSM database, but a highly simplified version) If you want to go to the trouble of parsing all of the coastline shapefiles, they're here: [http://hypercube.telascience.org/~kleptog/]
-:: And a third edit to say that we use [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/PGS this datasource].
-Of course, having the data is not necessary, merely being able to query a web service for whether a coordinate is land is sufficient.  The crudest approach would be to graphically scrape google maps, but, that's kind of lame.
+:: Having only heard positive feedback thusfar, if I hear no further discussion, I intend to replace [[Main Page]] with an up-to-date [[User:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page]] on '''Friday 11 July''' at some time between 13:00 and 16:00 UTC.  If you have ''any'' suggestions for improvements to the layout of the prototype, please let me know on [[User talk:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page|its talk page]].  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 03:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
---[[User:Recursive|Recursive]] 11:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-: So i'll assume by kinda lame you meant awesome and i went ahead and implemented that, here it is: [http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ss06r/GeoHashing/cgi-bin/geohashing.py Enjoy]
-Wouldn't it be simpler just to have a standardized method of determining where to go if the geohash is over water? Say, "Follow shortest straight north, east, south, or west line to land and meet at the coast" or something along those lines. -- Curtmack ([[Special:Contributions/67.141.84.48|67.141.84.48]] 01:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC))
+::: What stopped this happening? Your proposed front page looks awesome, I hope you implement it soon. --[[User:Kieran|Kieran]] 10:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
-: But whats the point of simple when it ruins my fun. Also i think it'd be better to try to keep everyone meeting at the geohashes or as close to as possible. Then we'll get custers of people. More people means more fun :). check out the implementation of this here: [[http://geohashing.electronicwar.net/ Finding Alternative Geohashes]]
-:: Hence the point of a standardized method. Although I agree, it is more fun to try and go over water, but it could be horrendously difficult and downright impossible in some cases (i.e. your geohash is several miles out on water and all you can conceivably rent is a rowboat). Just a thought anyway. [[User:Curtmack|Curtmack]] 00:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-== Active Graticules ==
+:::: I think there were problems with the server being slow at the time.  I might go back through and try to merge the information from the current [[Main Page]] with my [[User:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/Main Page|sandbox version]], and re-propose the change.  But I don't think that's really quite necessary anymore.  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 02:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-Can it be done to automatically sort the active graticule list? --[[User:Polysylabic Pseudonym|Psud]] 11:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+== problem with iPhone version ==
+Here in Lisbon, Portugal, the iPhone version always gives the same coordinates in the midle of the ocean:
-:: be useful if people started catergorizing their pages too --[[User:Ryan the leach|Ryan the leach]] 12:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+LAT: 38.557176
+LONG: -9.228286
+Does this happens to someone else, in some other place?
-::What if we redo the active graticules entirely?  Better soon than later.  Create a "Active Graticules" page with lists of all graticules, and then only list the most active graticules on the main page? --[[User:Tsen|Tsen]] 13:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:: Yes, this also happens on my iPhone - [[User:Scottkuma|Scottkuma]] 14:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
-:::Agreed. There should be a page of ALL graticules and then once it has had more than 5 visits (or some other arbitrary number) it can be moved to the 'active graticules' list on the main page. --[[User:KDinCT|KDinCT]] 14:10, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+I have been using the iPhone app to attempt to geohash over the past week whilst away on holidays with no internet access, but have just discovered that this app almost always yields a completely different set of co-ordinates to the Peeron version online. Can anyone shed any light on this? --[[User:CJ|CJ]] 22:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
-::How can we add new Graticules? I live in South Africa and Geocaching itself is a becoming a big deal. Can we add an African region? More specifically a South Africa; and then Johannesburg?
+== Degrees of Separation ==
+I meet geohashers from my graticule and nearby ones, and they meet geohashers from ones near them in the other direction, and so on. It would be cool if there were a tool to see how many degrees of separation existed between any two geohashers. Just an idea. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 19:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
-:::Just edit the main page, copy/paste an existing entry, alter it to match your location and save.  It should create a link to your page, which should still be blank.  Then edit that, (perhaps copy/pasting another graticule's page to keep a semblance of order) and add all you want.
+: It would probably be pretty close to actual physical "degrees" of separation between graticules, unless you have a lot of people travelling!  --[[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tim P]] 04:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
+::I know of geohashers from two North American graticules heading to Germany, a German one gong to Chile and another German one who regularly goes to Finland. Maybe it's about your physical separation from Germany. :-). -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 04:33, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
+:::And one who went to Germany recently :) Go intercontinental geohashers! --[[User:Thomcat|Thomcat]] 13:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
+::::If you'll excuse the necro of this subject, as I'm trying to get used to the community I've just joined, this basically sounds like it follows Small World theory (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-world_network The Other Wiki], although it's a bit lacking of the diagrams than I'd have hoped would have been there).  Localised cliques (largely groupings internal to a single graticule, but with some contact with direct neighbours), but a few long-distance connections between 'hub representatives': i.e. those who have had occasion to travel to other places and opportunity to join in an elsewhere's local groupings.  Via the latter, anyone who isn't by circumstance a purely solo geohasher (or yet to break their duck) is likely to need a very low number of links to be connected by a (not necessarily chronological) sequence of physical meetings to just about anyone else who isn't working solo.  Especially after a couple of years or more.  And I reckon that if nobody has yet gone through and parsed the entire archive of meetlogs to at least track which Wiki-users have met which other Wiki-users, and drawn up some sort analysis or even just a plain linkage map (drawing lines between stated or presumed 'home' locations), somebody has been missing a trick.  We could, of course, find groupings, even overlapping worldwide sets of groupings, who have managed to geohash without making any such form of contact-by-proxy between the various sets.  If so, we may need to continue a bit longer (or allow for those that have gone inactive for one of many possible reasons), but eventually there should arise a single net containing the majority of us. --[[User:Monty|Monty]] 16:54, 28 January 2011 (EST)
+::::: There is the [[Meetup_graph]] which, while manually updated, performs a similar function. --[[User:MykaDragonBlue|mykaDragonBlue &#91;- i have no sig -&#93;]] 17:03, 28 January 2011 (EST)
-:: On another note, I'd be willing to reorder the pages for Active Graticules and cut down the bulk, but what criteria should we use for "More" active graticules?  Since this has only really hit the interwebs in the last day, there hasn't been time to see which areas are really going to be busiest.  Do we create an active graticule page now, removing them all from the front page and then adding more active/interesting ones to the main page as they come up?  --[[User:Tsen|Tsen]] 03:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+== Geohashing around the world ==
-:: What about just having categories for "at least 10 users", "at least 50 users", "at least 100 users", "at least 500 users", "at least 1000 users" etc. There seems to be a convention developing of listing user names in each graticule for those who are interested in participating (though this probably doesn't scale well... perhaps an average count of recent Saturday participants instead?). Then as time goes by and they grow, we can just start linking to bigger and bigger category pages to see the most active groups. --[[User:Cahlroisse|Cahlroisse]] 05:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+I am about to go backpacking in Europe for a couple of months and I have been pondering as to how best Geohash around the world.
-== DOW source ==
+My first thought is that I will be flying half way around the world and I figure that there must be some chance of flying over a hash point! Can anyone think of a way I could log my journey and check it against the graticules? Or is there another way of doing it?
+:If you have a GPS that's only a GPS - so, no phone or other device with a sender - the airline will probably allow you to operate it on the plane. You could then check the tracklog against the actual coordinate fractions. But do ask, because the stewards may mistake it for a phone and cause trouble on the way. And don't forget the fractions will change when crossing the 30W line.
-What is our source for the DJIA figure?  I only ask because http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/dow.js has "data['2008-05-20']=13026.04", and http://irc.peeron.com//xkcd/map/data/2008/05/20 also says, "13026.04"
+::Of course, if you don't tell anybody, you might just log the whole flight. It works best with an external antenna (so that you can turn it right face up) sticking out of your front seat pocket, close to the window. see  ->  http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=44569 -- [[User:relet|relet]] 13:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-However, WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/npage/2_3051.html?symbol=DJIA), usually reliable for this kind of thing, has an opening of "12,958.06" for 5/20/2008.
+Also, I was wondering if anyone knows if my GPS will work in Europe or if I need to download something else to make it work? It is a Garmin 60.
+:The only technical differences between an american version and an european version of a Garmin GPS are the maps included (if any) and, with some models, the language support. Your GPS will need some time to recalibrate when first switched on after the flight but that's all of it. There are plenty of people in Germany who use american versions, as until a few months ago Garmin sold them much cheaper in the US than here.
-I could be misinterpreting something.  [[User:Mattflaschen|Mattflaschen]] 13:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+Thank you, and I am look forward to finding random spots overseas! [[User:Kate|Kate]] 12:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-:And http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=%5EDJI does have, "13,026.04".  [[User:Mattflaschen|Mattflaschen]] 13:28, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:: We get the data from finance.google.com [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 14:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-I think [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average#Criticism this] may help explain the problem with opening values. Perhaps the closing value should just be used as that seems a bit more definitive -- someone may want to check the sources named in this section to see if they agree on closing value. If the closing values of all three of Dow, Nikkei and Euronext were summed, this would still allow for surprise most mornings of the week worldwide -- your surprise would just be based on the closing of a market partway around the world.
+:If you know your plans long enough in advance, don't forget to announce them - there might be a chance for a real meetup :) --[[User:Ekorren|Ekorren]] 12:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-See [[#Europe_Time_Zones_problem]] for discussion of combining multiple indices. —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 19:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:Well, I don't know.  The article says, "the posted opening price on the Dow will be close to the previous day's closing price (which can be observed by looking at Dow price history) and will not accurately reflect the true opening prices of all its components."  But that's a criticism that the posted opening is meaningless (from an economic point of view).  It doesn't necessarily imply that different services post different openings.
-:The three (Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and WSJ) do agree on today's closing price.  However, I recommend we stick with opening and just state a definitive source. [[User:Mattflaschen|Mattflaschen]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::Seconded. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 13:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-:: Okay. The statements above seemed to indicate that different sources post different openings, and I thought the article might explain that.
+:When I fly, I get the coordinates of the day and then just keep updating the number before the decimal point to see if I'm going to hit the next one. You won't be allowed to use your electronic GPS receiver for takeoff and landing, but in cruise, you can see if it will work. It may or may not. (I sit in the front and have a wider view of the sky). If it has a mode to record tracks you could painstakingly go through the data afterwards, but the chance of getting right on a point is pretty small. Unless, that is, you meet the flight crew before hand and manage to sell them on the geohashing concept. Just make sure you're not misinterpreted as trying to hijack the plane.  "Take this plane to N23°03'59.29", W82°15'20.45"!" -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 12:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-:: Regardless of opening vs closing, the definitive source solution seems helpful. —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 21:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-I realize that this is just for spontaneity, and that's great, but lest someone decide to use this for something serious, it ought to be noted that the entropy of the DOW isn't very high: the biggest change ever over the course of a single day is -684.81 (http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/index.cfm?event=showavgstats#no4), which is about 16 bits.  Most daily differences are much smaller, around half that many bits.  It's very amenable to a dictionary attack. --Mike Stay
+::Wow, Cuba! I think I'll be in serious trouble if the flight from Sydney to London ends up there!! [[User:Kate|Kate]] 13:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-: True... adversaries could prepare to target the 32768 likeliest meetup sites tomorrow. I'll risk it.  ;-)  —[[User:Dcamp314|Christian Campbell]] 19:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+:Your GPS will receive satellite signals and calculate position anywhere in the world (it will take a while to figure it out after travelling so far, though) but if it shows roads and points of interest on the screen, and you use those, you may need to download local maps for it.
-: The entropy of the DJIA doesn't actually matter.  A single digit change is enough to toss you completely to the other end of the graticule, since the MD5 would be *completely different*. [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 23:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-== Not just for games ==
+:Edit conflict -- someone else has already answered while I was typing, but I'll add this anyway. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 12:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-This idea interests me but not necessarily just for games. My only problem is the use of the DOW. Say you maintained a group of people who you want to secretly convene at certain times and locations. The times are all set in advance. You don't want to transmit the location itself since it could be intercepted. Replace MD5 with your own convoluted scheme. Transmit the keys to that algorithm online, through numbers stations, whatever. The point is that you can select their location in advance, compute the key, transmit the key, and nobody would be able to figure out what it meant. If they did know it associated to a geolocation, then they would have to crack your algorithm.
+:The chance of getting a hashpoint in random flight is not that small for Kate. The 10 arc seconds rule for an air geohash leads to a 1:360 chance for every graticule crossed. From Sydney to e.g. London it is 150° longitude and 85° latitude, i.e. the chance of reaching a hashpoint is more than 50% on the flight. (It could be >95% if enough people would support my proposal [[Talk:Air_Geohash|here]], because I've been having the GPS-logger-on-a-plane-idea for a long time. /end advertising). - [[User:Danatar|Danatar]] 13:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
-:You don't need to replace MD5. Just arrange on a password, and concatenate it with the date and number before doing the MD5. Then you can publish the number and even the method, and your location won't be determinable. -- lilac
+I'm back from over seas, but I found that my GPS did not work at all. I tried it in the UK, in France, Germany, all over Europe, in cities and in the country and it couldn't find any satellites. Perhaps there was an international button I needed to press? It has worked perfectly back in Australia again--[[User:Kate|Kate]] 20:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-== Small Islands / Countries ==
+:Oh noes! I am quite curious about possible explanations. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 20:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-One problem with this are small countries such as Malta ([http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2008-05-12&lat=35&long=14&zoom=7&abs=1]). It's split into two reagions and both are very small relative to the degree grid box. It would make more sense two have the entire country as part of a single region (i.e. shift by half a degree). This of course would not occur to you, big country - americanites ;)
+::The only explanation I could think of is that it failed to do a cold restart. When travelling for more than a few hundred km with a switched-off GPS, it needs to reinitialize from start like when first switched on. There's a technical reason for that based in the kind of signal the satellites send. In such a case, my old GPS (a first generation Garmin Etrex) first seems to find no satellites (it actually tries to get rid of some  supposed measuring error), then, after several minutes of no fix, notices that something doesn't sum up from the saved values and asks whether I moved for a longer distance. If I reply with "yes", it forgets everything and starts reinitialization. Maybe you just didn't wait long enough and switched it off again before it could adapt itself to Europe? --[[User:Ekorren|Ekorren]] 20:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-I don't see why this would be a problem since if it is a point on the western part of the grid then you go to the east side of the island (and it's associated degree grid box) and if it is a point on the eastern part of the grid then you go to the west side of the island (and it's associated degree grid box). But then again I am just a big country Americanite.
+:::No, good try, but that can't be it- I left it turned on for 2 hours in the outskirts of London one day (and it was 'searching' the whole time. --[[User:Kate|Kate]] 21:43, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-:We could, for such case, agree to add .5 degrees to the coordinates as needed to have the meeting point on land, or you could just all agree to swim or row to the meeting point instead. - Sparky
+== Map links ==
-Yeah, in Halifax NS (where I live), most of the square is in the sea. In Victoria BC, (when I happen to be right now), a good chunk of the square is in the sea, and a good chunk is in another country. In Wellington NZ (where I'm from), most of the square is either in the sea or an expensive 3-hour ferry ride away on another island. I suggest that you should be able to set the centre of the square with a higher granularity - say 1/10 of the square size. Then it's still not too hard to make sure everybody is using the same square, and it allows you to position the square such that it's mostly overland, and mostly in your country. [[Special:Contributions/24.68.238.83|24.68.238.83]] 14:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+Lately, the map links always seem to come up showing Massachusetts, no matter what place the links were intended to go to. [[User:Dtobias|Dtobias]] 06:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
-: I've said this before, and I'll say it again: the boundaries of the cells are completely irrelevant, because the meeting point is in the same place in every single cell. The meeting points are exactly 111km apart in both directions, and there will be a meeting point within ~78km of every single point on the surface of this planet. If that point happens to be 30km out to sea, there will be another one 111 - 30 = 81km inland. If you live on an island which is significantly smaller than 111 * 111 km, well, you're just not destined to meet people, I guess ;-)
+:IIRC I heard something about Google changing their API, and no one has fixed the calculator yet. --[[User:The ru|The ru]] 08:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
-:: Okay. Don't get me wrong. I agree with the system, but what you're saying isn't entirely correct. It is possible to have meetup points further apart than that. Like, for example, what if you lived in Haywards Heath, UK. It's close to the Prime Meridian. Because of the algorithm, it's possible for the geohash to give something like .99999 west or east. Like for example [http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2008-05-11&lat=51&long=-1&zoom=6&abs=1 May 11]. It's just a hair over that, but it's possible to get further. (Greenwich may 18th...).  [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] 15:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-::: Yes, you are entirely correct. I didn't realise that the algorithm mirrors the coordinates around the 0 medians (on the north-south and east-west boundaries). This artifact of the algorithm can be removed by inverting the fractions in, for example, the east and south hemispheres. - Sparky
+== Main page restructure ==
+Right now (January 2009) we're rearranging some of the "static" pages, including the main page. It might seem a bit confusing at first, but we think the end result will be an improvement for both new users and regulars. If you disagree with anything we've done, post here, join #geohashing or just change it for the better! --[[User:The ru|The ru]] 15:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
-== Zero degrees longitude ==
+:I agree with the main page rearrange, but I don't think the quotes (except maybe the one about enjoying it pointlessly) and the hall of amazingness belong in How it Works. Maybe a highlights page off the main page? -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 08:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
-Note that there is a negative zero, for those of us near the Prime Meridian (e.g.: London).  The algorithm will then lead to longitudinal coordinates such as -0.1234 instead of 0.1234.
+:Actually, I'd like to see the quotes (randomly rotating,either auto or manually) on the front page, in the very top section under "welcome to the geohashing wiki" as they really give a feel for the game. Any thoughts? -- [[User:UnwiseOwl|UnwiseOwl]] 01:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
-: Correct - this is by design. [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 14:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::I agree. Auto doesn't look like it's going to happen (discussion is on my talk page). It'll at least make people laugh at how insane we all are. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 02:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
-:: Heh, indeed - To clarify, I added this info because London West was originally listed as longitude -1 (as opposed to -0).  I didn't intend to imply it was a problem to have negative zero, I just wanted to flag the issue.  Sorry for any confusion. [[Special:Contributions/194.74.151.201|194.74.151.201]] 16:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:::That's enough for me. Implemented. -- [[User:UnwiseOwl|UnwiseOwl]] 02:44, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
-:: Actually, it appears zones are numbered with the WESTMOST longitude coordinate.  In the west, it doesn't make much intuitive sense, because, for example, all locations in a zone labeled with -80 longitude begin with W 79°.  As such, London West actually '''is''' -1.  [[User:Tjtrumpet2323|Tjtrumpet2323]] 22:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:: A heads-up to the person who created the rss feed: the script doesn't recognise the existence of -0, but if you pass it -1, you get (as you shoulld) a longitudinal co-ordinate -2 < x < -1. There's no way to get any of the graticules where -1 < x < 0.
+==My Vision of the Future==
+I'm poking around today, putting categories on photos, linking expeditions to their proper graticule and user pages, and creating expedition pages from rough notes on graticule pages. Some people don't ''want'' to do all this post expedition, and I don't really blame them. I envision an expedition upload form that does all this automatically. You tell it the date and graticule of the expedition and the names of the participants, you give it a list of pictures to upload and fill in the text of the report, then boom, everything is linked and categorized. You could enter all your expedition text on the upload form, or you could go back and edit the graticule, user or expedition pages the normal way. As you uploaded your photographs there could even be a checkbox to 'nominate this photo for the main page gallery'. If fewer than 4/8/12 photos were so nominated all would display, and if more, they could be chosen randomly, or weighted for users or graticules that hadn't had a photo in the gallery lately.
+Is this possible?  Is this an incredible amount of work? -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 21:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
-If this was by design, then can the design please be reconsidered? For everyone else, the maximum distance to a meetup is the diagonal length of a graticule, but for people on zero degrees longitude / latitude, it's further than that. For instance, the nearest two meeting points to me (in Cambridge UK, at 52, 0) are at 52.179467°, 0.861536° and 52.179467°, -0.861537°, both of which are too far for me to visit. Can we change the algorithm to round down, rather than truncate, the starting location? -- lilac
+*I like your vision! It takes me forever to upload all the things and get all the links right. Then lovely people still have to come along behind me and clean up! --[[User:Kate|Kate]] 21:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-==Page Forwarding==
+:I think a wiki is not set up for that kind of thing - the whole point of a wiki is that you can edit every little bit of it. Maybe someone can write a front-end page that will generate everything in proper wikicode format, which you can then cope and paste? I'm not sure if wiki code allows such interactivity.
-I am just learning how to work on wiki's so please forgive me but I am wondering if there is a way to make a page automatically forward to the correct graticule page based solely on the latitude and longitude. For example, if I am linking to the page currently called "Springfield, Massachusetts" I want to link to 42, -72. I see this as a benefit in case someone later down the street decides to rename this page "Springfield, MA" and my "Springfield, Massachusetts" link no longer works. Or are the links not changed when the page name is change?--[[User:KDinCT|KDinCT]] 17:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+:It's a simple enough website to write - I could probably do it if I didn't have a report due soon. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 21:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-:There are some ways for this.
+::Oh I didn't want to limit anyone's ability to edit every little thing. It's just a front-end indeed that I wanted. Copy and paste would do one page. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 22:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
-:-Having pages redirect to others, using <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[NewPagename]]</nowiki>
+:::You want a template. Like perhaps {{tl|expedition}}.  [[User:Anthony|Anthony]] 21:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
-:-You can give links different names using <nowiki>[[Pagename|Linktitle]]</nowiki>
+::[[:Template:Expedition]] is definitely heading along the path towards that future. It replaces what  generic cut and paste text, but the template still doesn't cross reference the expedition, and the template isn't the path of least resistance for the new geohasher who wants to show off his or her expedition without doing all that wiki stuff. Or the old geohasher who wants to upload the stuff and go to bed after a five hour expedition. I'm the one who harps on this and I forgot to link some of my expeditions into their respective graticule pages. It's a lot to do after biking or wading through swamps all day. Also while [[:Template:Expedition]] is remarkably easy to use, at first glance it appears to be something complicated you have to know what to do with. I'm not sure a new geohasher would really start with it. I've not caught many using it (you can tell when people are using it, because the first save creates weird categories) who aren't experienced geowiki users. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 22:10, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
-:This should get you running. [[User:Nazgjunk|Nazgjunk]] 17:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+''I suppose it is technically possible, although I am already in my pyj...'' er... I mean, it could be done, yes. But getting it all to function reliably (have a remote website upload an image to the wiki, stuff like that) and wrap it in an HTML form that's simple enough not to scare off newbies, but also flexible enough so anyone ''other'' than newbies would want to use it... that's going to take a lot of work, and I guess it would still be used only very rarely. Also, graticule and user pages don't have a standardised layout, so the envisioned Geohash Expedition Report Wizard would have to guess where to put in the links. The template isn't very useful either, imo... I just reuse the wikicode from a previous expedition. If newbies can't be bothered to read and follow the excellent [[Expedition|expedition writeup guidelines]], I think I don't want to read their reports ;-) --[[User:Dawidi|dawidi]] 22:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
-== bug in reference implementation ==
+:I thought that it would hurl the links into a standardly named section. On graticule pages and userpages where no one cared they would just stay there, and where people cared they would rearrange them according to their preferences. I might not want to read their reports, but I'd like to have easily findable evidence that they went. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 23:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
-The reference implementation is biased against results in the .0..., .0... range.  This seems to be because the code that converts a hash string to a fraction stops dividing as soon as the remaining characters are all false (zeros.)  This division should probably happen a fixed number of times, instead. [[Special:Contributions/76.121.107.210|76.121.107.210]] 17:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::It ''could'' even be implemented in some kind of <nowiki>{{auto expedition}}</nowiki> Template. What I am thinking of is to extend Template:Expedition with some pointers to the pages where you would like to cross-link your expedition. They would appear as dead red links, until you actually edit them. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 23:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
-: Good catch, fixed [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 18:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-Great!  I also noticed another issue with the perl script -- the page you're retrieving the DJIA value from does not currently have the value for today, so the script is accidentally using the value for yesterday instead.  [http://finance.google.com/finance/historical?cid=983582&startdate=May+14,+2008&enddate=May+21,+2008 this page] is not currently showing a value for 5/21, which the script expects to be there.  [[Special:Contributions/76.121.107.210|76.121.107.210]] 20:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+Yeah! Or normal blue/purple links if they exist. That's in line with my vision. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 23:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
-: True - the cron job on the server doesn't get the data from that page, so it's not an issue there.  For the sample.pl, perhaps I'll edit it to use a different page if you're trying to load the coords for today.  -- Zig. [[Special:Contributions/159.153.4.51|159.153.4.51]] 05:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-The comic is also a bit vague about exactly how the hex value is converted to a decimal value. One would assume from the description that the hex value is simply converted straight to decimal (FF -> 255) and then appended to the lat/lon coordinates; the reference implementation, however, shows that the hex number is instead converted as a decimal fraction (0.FF -> 0.99609375). This latter approach inherits all of the accuracy problems inherent in converting between decimal and hex/binary fractions. Can't do much about that now except whine, I guess. Ooh, and a cheese platter? Mine's the chunk of reggiano parmesan, thanks. -- [[user:gnomon | gnomon]]
+== I'm so confused... ==
-: Yes, the comic states you take the hex as a fraction.  Not 'abcdef' but '0.abcdef'.  What accuracy problems?  you can describe any number between 0 and 1 to the nearest 1/2**16.  That translates to about 5 feet or so?  Or am I missing something?  [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 23:54, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+This is a great idea, but I'm confused. How do people meet up when everyone's coords are different? Is there one specific location for each graticule that is used each time? Also, is there a calculator somewhere I can use?
+:The fractional part of everyone's coordinates are the same - that means that people in an area of 1 degree latitude x 1 degree longitude can meet up. That's what we call a [[graticule]]. There's a map which shows the graticules and the hash for any given date [http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/ here]. Just zoom to your area and click - a pink square should show up with the location for today. It's the same for everyone in this area. HTH, -- [[User:relet|relet]] 09:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
-== Negative coordinates and adding versus appending ==
+==New User Comments==
+[[User:Wade|Wade]] says he finds the wiki very confusing. He wants My Home Graticule to be a navigation box link, with the home graticule set in User preferences. It's actually incredibly diffiult for a new user to answer the question, "is anyone doing anything in my city on Saturday?"  Try it, knowing nothing, and just clicking on links that look promising.  Is there a way to have any expedition for today or a future date with the Expedition planning category to automatially be linked to the current events page? -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 05:34, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
+:You could link to the Category:Expedition Planning on Current Events. Unfortunately, you can't include categories into the page text itself. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 19:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
+::Unfortunately that category is often dominated by planned but never attended meetups, so would not give a good picture. It's not so bad now, as Joannac just did a cleanout, but definitely wasn't the clean "what's going on in my neighbourhood?" answer he wanted. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 04:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
+:::Actually, I didn't clean out many planning expedition. They're all sitting there pending further discussion. Also, it's not ingrained for people to actually create a page before they go, yet. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 06:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
+::::This problem has been addressed with the [[Geohashing:Current_events|Current events]] option in the navigation bar at left. Now planned expeditions all over the world are automatically listed in one place. Comments from newcomers about improving wiki navigation are still welcome. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 02:11, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
+I'd still like to see a home graticule link that is settable in the preferences...my current solution is that I have my home grat link on my user page. I go through there rather than typing Buffalo in the search bar...I'm going to claim it's faster, but I'm probably a bit lazy too. [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] ([[User talk:Pedalpusher|talk]]) 21:58, 23 October 2014 (EDT)
-There's possibility for confusion with regard to graticule coordinates. For example, the larger NYC graticule's longitude ranges from -73 to -74. If, like it seems in the comic, you're supposed to append the random <1 number to the coordinate, then NYC's graticule should be listed as 40, -73 (since every point within the graticule has longitude -73.xxxxx). If, however, you're supposed to add the random <1 number to the graticule, then NYC's graticule should be listed as 40, -74 (since the random number is always positive, this will always lead to a -73.xxxxxx number unless the random number is zero). I therefore recommend changing the algorithm to specify adding the random number, not appending it.
+==Coordinate History==
+Just curious if there's a page that lists every official Geohash coordinate since the start (2008-05-21)?  If so, it'd be neat if that page could then be templated to a particular graticule, and going further, taking all those points and mapping them to see where every Geohash in your graticule has occurred.  I'm pretty sure I could create the list of official coordinates as well as a templated version to add the graticule and corresponding map links, but I wouldn't know how to take all the coordinates and map them into one view of the graticule.  Thoughts?  --[[User:Wenslayer|Wenslayer]] 05:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+: Argh, sorry, just found [[Talk:Main Page/Archive 3#Complete list of historical locations]] including link to [http://www.amipsychic.net/geohashing.html Geohashing historical data] [amipsychic.net]. --[[User:Wenslayer|Wenslayer]] 06:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+:: Check it out: [[User:Wenslayer/KMLGenerator]]. --[[User:Wenslayer|Wenslayer]] 08:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
-As a side note, the implementation of the algorithm linked to from the comic reflects this confusion. If the link includes zoom parameters, it gives the coordinates of the NYC graticule as 40, -74: http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?lat=40&long=-74&zoom=8&abs=1
+==IRC Chat==
-However, if the link does not include zoom parameters, the longitude has to be changed to -73 to give the same graticule:
+Anyone think it would be a good idea to drop this link: [http://www.mibbit.com/chat/?server=irc.foonetic.net&channel=%23geohashing Join Geohashing chat now] in the main page? Mibbit is an irc chat over http, doesn't require a java applet to be installed etc.
-http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?lat=40&long=-73
+:Nooo!  I use that link all the time to get to chat and I would be very confused if it all of a sudden I wasn't in Chatzilla. I think most people who are likely to want to use IRC chat wouldn't want their default client overridden. Maybe change the one in [[Help:Contents]]. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 19:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
-: The map always marks the northwestern edge of the graticule - otherwise, it'd have to add a parameter for N/S and E/W.  So when given the 'abs' argument, it takes your coordinates as the northwestern corner, and without it they're parsed as what the comic presents them as.  Perhaps this should be made more explicit though. [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 18:22, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
+::Actually i was thinking of having the link in addition to the existing one, so that people who don't have an irc client can join easily. --[[User:Xore|Xore]] 19:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+::I am on the fence about that.  Most people who know what IRC is will either already have their clients set up, or want to use their own.  Since it isn't very descriptive about what an "IRC channel" is, it might be better to leave it alone.  However, I think we do want the geohashing Main Page to be as user (read non-geek) friendly as possible, so having a link to mibbit might be beneficial.  Maybe a compromise:  [http://www.mibbit.com/chat/?server=irc.foonetic.net&channel=%23geohashing Join #geohashing chat on foonetic now] or [irc://irc.foonetic.net/geohashing with your own IRC client].  --[[User:Aperfectring|aperfectring]] 20:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+::: #geo#ing  :) --[[User:Xore|Xore]] 20:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+::: Join #geohashing chat on foonetic  [irc://irc.foonetic.net/geohashing with your own IRC client] or [http://www.mibbit.com/chat/?server=irc.foonetic.net&channel=%23geohashing using mibbit]. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 20:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC) (suggesting this order of things)
+:::: The order doesn't matter to me, but someone who doesn't know about IRC probably doesn't know what "mibbit" is.  Maybe "using your web browser" instead? --[[User:Aperfectring|aperfectring]] 20:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+::: [http://www.mibbit.com/chat/?server=irc.foonetic.net&channel=%23geohashing&nick=geo{{#expr:({{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} mod 10000)}} test]
+:::: someone with access to the wiki backend is welcome to replace the timestamp generator with something that will create a smaller random number --[[User:Xore|Xore]] 20:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+:::::No worries about needing a smaller random number, the guestXXXX nicks aren't really any shorter, if I remember rightly. --[[User:Aperfectring|aperfectring]] 20:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Map datum? ==
+Until we get a more geohashing-centric nick system working completely, I have included the generic link on Template:Getting_Started and Help:Contents --[[User:Aperfectring|aperfectring]] 23:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+:How about [http://relet.net/data/geo/randomnick.php this]? -- [[User:relet|relet]] 08:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
+::I tried it 3 times and got different ones each time, so it looks good to me.  Out of curiosity, how many different options are there?  --[[User:Aperfectring|aperfectring]] 12:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
+:::The YAWL wordlist used contains 264097 entries. And they all look good with geo-. Well, mostly. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 12:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
+::::Well that might be enough for now, but if we start getting all popular, you might want to think about increasing that.  <.<  >.>  Note: If 500 people click that link, there is an approx. 50% chance that two will have get the same nick, assuming that the selection is sufficiently random, and no type of exclusion list is used.  My main concern, though, is if "people" is included in that list.  That could prove disastrous for my typical greeting and farewell.  --[[User:Aperfectring|aperfectring]] 13:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
-One thing left unspecified so far is "What map datum should the coordinates be interpreted in?"  I suppose that everyone is using the same thing Google Maps uses, by default.  Having searched for what it is, I see a lot of people speculating that it is WGS84, though the Google Maps API doesn't say so.
+== Proposed update to 1st sentences. ==
---[[User:Recursive|Recursive]] 18:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
-:It is. (as defined by the [http://www.iter.dk/post/2008/05/SphericalWeb-Mercator-EPSG-code-3785.aspx recent EPSG standard] (that's actually based on MS VE, but Google use the same thing)) --[[User:Edgemaster|Edgemaster]] 17:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-== failsafe distributed geohashing ==
+Proposal:
+: On the main page, I'd like to move the sentence ''"Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator"'' from its current location above the random quote to being the first sentence in the '''"What is this?"''' section.
-There are a few undesirable issues with the data source for geohashing:
+Discussion:
-# It relies on data from the stock market, and the stock market is a yucky, yucky institution.
+: I occasionally direct geohashing n00bs to the wiki as a way of introduction.  Right before sending the email, I follow the link as part of my final editing process, to "get the reader's experience."  Every single time, I get to the wiki main page, and my eye immediately gravitates to the headline "What is this?" and I begin reading a section that is just a teeny-bit too "jump right in to the technical bits."  I think that the sentence that is currently above the quote-banner, ''"Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator"'' would serve better as the opening sentence to the "What Is This" section.
-# in case of a nuclear winter, terrorist attack, natural disaster or other breakdown of society, the data source for entropy disappears (same with weekends or mornings before 9am).
+: In my proposal, the front page layout would be changed from:
-#it is insufficiently DIY.
+:: '''Main Page'''
-#there is only one location per day (or three days in the case of weekends). This means that if you discover that your communication channel has been compromised and that THE ENEMY knows where you are going to meet, there is no way to broadcast new information over the compromised communication channel such that the BAD PEOPLE won't be able to find out the new meetup location but the GOOD PEOPLE will.
+:: Welcome to the Geohashing Community Wiki. Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator.  Geohashing was brought to you by the xkcd webcomic.
+:: (Random Quote)
+:: '''What is this?'''
+:: Every day, the algorithm generates a new set of coordinates... [etc.]
+: to:
+:: '''Main Page'''
+:: Welcome to the Geohashing Community Wiki. Geohashing was brought to you by the xkcd webcomic.
+:: (Random Quote)
+:: '''What is this?'''
+:: Geohashing is a method for finding an effectively random location nearby and visiting it, i.e. a Spontaneous Adventure Generator.  Every day, the algorithm generates a new set of coordinates... [etc.]
+: The next time I'm struck by this oddity, I'll check back and, if there are no objections, I'll make the change.  ''edit'': forgot to sign: [[User:Ted|Ted]] 17:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
-A solution:
+I've struggled a little with this as well.  '''Support''' --[[User:Wenslayer|Wenslayer]] 17:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
-The weather is a source of data that is always available. Further within a local area weather is fairly (though not completely) constant so it is suitable for DIY weather stations. If time is built into the procedure then it can give multiple points per day, plus a broadcastable variable such that the BAD GUYS can't figure out the new location (assuming they don't know how you generate the locations).
+:Glad someone else is thinking about the new user. This never struck me, but now that I read it, yeah '''support'''. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 17:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
+'''Support''' definitely.  I would also scratch "Community" and "i.e.". [[User:Juventas|Juventas]] 05:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+:: Done.  I think it's much more approachable, now.  Thanks for the support. [[User:Ted|Ted]] 06:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+:::''Damn'' does that ever look better. Thank ''you'', Ted. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 06:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-Procedure:
+== Juventas' Server Configuration Wishlist ==
-Choose the date plus a begin and end time (measured in 10 minute blocks). Then you go and find out weather data for yesterday for your location. From this choose the data points for you start and end time as well as the max and min temp (and when they happened. Then use the following (or something like it) to generate the data for the hash:
-*<date>
-*<start time> <last digit of temp (decimal point rounded)> <second and third last digits of pressure (last digit rounded)>
-*<end time> <last digit of temp (decimal point rounded)> <second and third last digits of pressure (last digit rounded)>
-*<last digit of max daily temp (decimal point rounded)> <time of max daily temp (only the rounded value for the tens of minutes digit)> <last digit of min daily temp (decimal point rounded)><time of max daily temp (only the rounded value for the tens of minutes digit)>
-Example: [23-05-08] [6.50 9 02] [7.00 9 02] [0 2 4 5] (square brackets are only to enhance readability).
+*Allow uploading of kml/kmz files. Small, harmless, big potential.
-from original values:
+:My guess is that the kml file could be interpreted as HTML by the browser, allowing malicious code to be interpreted? We've had this before, can't be bothered searching atm. Will update later. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-*date: 23-05-08,
+::Interpreted as XML.  Another user who was also interested in this looked into it and figured it was safe.  I'm not a XML security expert. [[User:Juventas|Juventas]] 07:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-*time: 6.50-7.00 (24 hour time of course),
+:::Right. So now you have to convince the admin :) --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 07:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-*temp and pressure at 6.50: 18.6 C 1018 hPa,
+*Under "My Preferences" > "Watchlist" > "Add pages I...", enable as default.  Most of the time I ask a question on a new image talk page, I get no response.
-*temp and pressure at 7.00: 18.9 C 1017 hPa,
+:Not doable by me. Also unlikely to be done - users should have to sign up for email spam, not get it by default. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-*max temp:29.9 °C at 12:25,
+::That would require "E-mail me when a page I'm watching is changed" to be enabled.  I thought this was disabled by default. [[User:Juventas|Juventas]] 07:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-*min temp:13.5 °C at 06:52.
+:::It is disabled by default. I don't see the point of making this change then. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 07:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+*Under "My Preferences" > "Search" > enable all as default.  The search is useless without it.  I experienced much frustration with this as a new user looking for information.
+:I agree, but see further down. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+*Install the CAPTCHA thing so the leaders of this wiki can use their time for better things.
+:Also agree, see further down. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+*Address the recent intermittent performance problems.  I'm guessing we're getting a free ride, but I'd like to hear options.
+:The wiki/fora is maxing out the CPUs on the server. The sysad is deciding whether to move to a new server, add more boxes, etc. This means that backend changes will be put on hold until he decides. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 06:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+*...other things I'm forgetting, feel free to jump in.
-Because such a small time window was used the temp and pressure ended up being the same for our purposes, however for time windows of an hour or longer this would rarely be the case. If you want more entropy you could add sunrise/setplus, average rainfall over the preceding month, max and min UV index, etc. Importantly, it should use variables that will be different from one day to the next, but which are able to be measured with reasonable accuracy from any place in a smallish city. This means that the fine end of a measurement (ie. decimal point) should not be used, nor should the gross end (eg. the thousands for hPa and the tens for temp). For those without their own weather station you can easily use one of the billions of publicly available ones eg. http://www.wxqa.com/stations.html .
+Thanks to all those who have written bots to manage so many other things. [[User:Juventas|Juventas]] 06:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+:That's all server-side and IMO all worthy. For the captcha issue, you can weigh in [[User:Joannac/Spam|here]]. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 06:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
+::Here's a [[Configuring the wiki|stop gap measure]]. Change/improve anything. -[[User:Robyn|Robyn]] 08:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
--rjs.
+== Offer of hosting ==
-I don't see this as failsafe. You all have to agree on a particular weather station. If everyone had their own weather station, everyone would get slightly different readings. Even minor differences can have major effects on the resulting md5 calculated location. --engunneer
+Hello, I'm davidc, geocacher, geohasher. You've doubtless met me on IRC already. Recently the wiki seems really slow - in fact today it was so bad, it was giving MySQL errors about concurrent transactions.
-== Planning Ahead ==
+I'd like to offer my assistance. I own Sargasso Networks (www.sargasso.net, I won't link it here) and I have a couple of quad xeon servers dedicated to what I call "community hosting", aka "things I'm interested in and want to support". I would be very happy to host the wiki so it's off the xkcd forum server and has sufficient CPU power and bandwidth. We're a professional ISP with quality bandwidth etc, no Cogent etc blah.
-I tried creating a geohash for june 26th, but it seems you are going off of market data, because it says "no market data for 6/26".
+As an aside, I also just registered www.geohashing.org and www.geohashing.org/[whatever] now redirects to wiki.xkcd.org/geohashing/[whatever]. This would provide an easy migration path if you want to move it to another server (since the same redirect can be set up in the reverse direction).
-: Um, yeah, that's rather the point. Did you actually read the cartoon? The reason for using something unknowable in advance is so that one does not know in advance (except at weekends) where each day's location will be.
-: Its about spontaneous fun adventures my deary! Just let go, find out where things are on the 25th and make it happen. see you there! [[User:Sinjax | SinJax]]
+Let me know here, on my talk page, or on IRC. --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 22:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
-==Larger Events==
+: '''Support''' -- thanks for offering, davidc! --[[User:Wenslayer|Wenslayer]] 23:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
-If this turns out to be successful, I think it would be nice to group sets of graticules together and have state- or even national-based events (although this may be tricky in nations that cross timezones... maybe we could just have time-zone based events) for special occasions. [[User:StJimmy|StJimmy]]
+:That's a big offer.  Afaik, we generally have only voted on things involving wiki editing.  I would think something like a server move would be entirely up to the administrators.  My primary concerns would be whether the new hosting would have substantially better performance, and what would happen in the long term (say if davidc was unable/unwilling to continue). [[User:Juventas|Juventas]] 01:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
-== Who owns the land? ==
+::Yes, it's up to the admins (who I'm not sure I've met or even know about, except joannac). From previous mediawiki installations on our network, I'm sure the new servers are up to the task (each server is 4xXeon-E5430 2.66Ghz, 4GB, RAID1+0 SATA, Gig-E uplinks to our 10-GE backbone) - a trial can be arranged easily enough anyway if desired. As far as long-term, I understand that's always a concern but let me say we've hosted things like Freenode since 2000, and my personal priority is always to ensure continuity, even though we haven't really used Freenode in the last 4-5 years. (As with other arrangements, staff would be given access to our NOC helpdesk). Let me say now also that my desire isn't control or anything, but simply to improve the performce for myself and others. I wouldn't request to be a wiki admin: the existing admins would have full ssh access to the wiki account. --[[User:Davidc|Davidc]] 01:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
-One of the things that early geocachers quickly learned is that even ''public'' land that they thought would be safe to hide a geocache on ("...it's not harming anyone...") was "owned" or cared for by someone.  I think geohashing is going to quickly run into a similar problem.  You will get your coordinates, everyone will rush out there and maybe you'll even find a public right of way that leads you close.  But the times someone ends up on private property chasing their GPS signal or people go off-trail in a public park against posted policies or whatever slight someone takes like if they land in a graveyard and some participants still want to play "games" upon arrival, well, those are the ones that geohashing will be remembered for and the people who follow out there that day are not going to have any idea what kind of hurt feelings or possible repercussions they're about to run into when they arrive.
+:So, why is it slow lately? Is the server being bogged down by [[User:NWoodruff|NWoodruff's]] giant image files? (Yes, I'm kidding.) Seriously, it seems likely to me that the current issues are solvable. It's not as though geohashing has become immensely more popular in the last few months.
-Just a caveat from a learned geocacher for geohashers to keep in consideration.  No means no and even the times when you think you're in the right, you might be doing more harm than good by forcing the issue.  Be smart from the time you leave the house to the time you determine you have no right to go any further.  [[Special:Contributions/24.218.222.86|24.218.222.86]] 01:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+:Either way, the generous offer is much appreciated. --[[User:Starbird|starbird]] 03:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
+::Geohashing may not have been, but bear in mind the server is shared with other things like the xkcd forums. --[[User:Davidc|Davidc]] 22:42, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
-: I agree with this, to some extent. The point of this idea is adventure, so we sort of want to have weird places to try to get to. But sadly we can't just walk anywhere we want, so some filtering of the locations might be in order. "bad" locations that end up on private land or non-walkable locations might get moved to the nearest accessible point or recalculated with some predictable randomness added to the hash until an acceptable solution is found. This would probably be hard to implement correctly though, and it could be that a super simple solution is best. - forest
+Individual graticule pages seem to be particularly slow to load, compared to other things.  Perhaps some of the transcluded stuff like maps and coordinates require complicated server operations?  The really annoying thing is that the slowness continues even when you return to such a page with the browser back button; apparently, caching is suppressed. [[User:Dtobias|Dtobias]] 14:09, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
-:: You're not thinking globally.  No one can pick a proper new location every day for every place in the world.  Yes, some days the locations in your area might not work out, that's too bad.  Try again tomorrow! [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 06:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+:If this particularily affects graticule pages using the so called "quick links" template, it's a known fact that those quick links actually are very slow links. Try removing them from the page. --[[User:Ekorren|Ekorren]] 14:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
-:::Think more pragmatically:  How early in the process can you determine that the day's location will "work out"?  Is there a way to learn from others' experiences for the day that the site didn't "work out"?  What is the impact on the person who owns the land where the hash isn't "working out" when people will just continue to show up unannounced?  How can the geohashing/xkcd community avoid a bad rap for following a "wierd internet trend" that leads people to just showing up en masse on a stranger's front yard/street corner/field?  Those are a lot of the same questions that geocaching (particularly non-Geocaching(tm) geocaching) has had to deal with.  Geocaching(tm) avoids some of this by requiring approval for locations and methods of hiding before being listed for the world to see.  Here, the hash is determinable without any central authority or QA.  This means there's little control over the actions of the community members...which could mean problems for the community and the activity as a whole that should be given some consideration.
+== libwww-perl/5.828 ==
-:::My answer would begin with laying out some guidelines in a high profile place, like this wiki's Main Page, to help shape how new community members may be influenced.  Some things may be obvious to certain people who come here to "just have fun" or "go back another day" but you'll find someone who will want to do something like a "10 days in a row Achievement".  There will be community members with less self-control who will want to run through someone's property just to "catch'em all" or keep up their streak or whatever have you.  Again, these are just some of the issues I have seen in geocaching which may even be more exacerbated by the fact that you don't even need to search or leave something behind to geohash, therefore you're more likely to see less harm from trying to reach your coordinates when they're not legally accessible.  I haven't even gotten to the warped problems, like having a group of 4-5 people meeting up in the bushes at a public park, just to get reported because they're less than 30 feet from a group of children playing in a sandbox.  Then there's the xkcd twist in that situation...half of the hashers are wearing raptor masks and the other half have swords.  [[Special:Contributions/24.218.222.86|24.218.222.86]] 18:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-: How close do you have to get to have achieved a location? The location for me today is ending up in the middle of a field of wheat. Would the nearest field boundary be acceptable? Or the nearest public access point?
+Some bot is running against this wiki, with that user-agent. Anyone running a bot with that user-agent? It's running amok (300k+ hits per day) and apparently is the cause of the recent slow-down. --[[User:Davidc|Davidc]] 01:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
-:: How about coming up with a frequency standard that we can use with two-way radios? Then anyone in the vicinity can announce their arrival and meet with the others nearby. --waq
-== Split Cities ==
+:I think it is some windows virus. It is now hitting our servers at our company. I don't think it has anything to do with a Geohasher or Geohashbot. --[[User:NWoodruff|NWoodruff]] 12:43, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
-I have created a [[:Category:Split Cities|Split Cities]] category (temporarily?) for cities such as Chicago and Washington, DC, which don't quite fit squarely into a graticule. It's just a way to categorize them, not a proposed solution to the problem (hell, it's even debatable whether there is a problem). Feedback? [[User:Tyler|Tyler]] 02:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+::I think that's the default user agent string when you access Web pages via Perl scripts using a standard library for this purpose. [[User:Dtobias|Dtobias]] 13:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
-: I think the alternative i've coded up should solve this problem as well. Check it out: [http://geohashing.electronicwar.net/ Alternative Geohash]
-: In the event of a split city, I think the simplest solution is for people to go to the nearest location.  If you live in the north half of a split city, and the point of the day is far north, just try the point in the graticule directly south, where the point is probably within the south urban area of your city.  no?  [[User:WokTiny|WokTiny]] 15:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+== removing "Community portal" inclusion. ==
-: No city can possible have it worse that Columbus, Ohio: split into four exactly in the center. [[User:Tytrain|Tytrain]] 01:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
+Would anyone object if I remove the inclusion of the site [[Geohashing:Community_Portal]] at the end of Main Page? I think it contains a lot of information that does not need to be necessarily on the Main Page, adding to the bulk. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 10:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
+:DNO - [[User:Danatar|Danatar]] 12:59, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
+:Looks good. --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 10:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
-== Achievements ==
+== Can we provide a landing place for people who have seen a marker in the wild? ==
-I made an [[Achievements]] page to list some extra challenges that can be achieved so people can brag about some of the harder places they've gotten to (eg, i've got a Water GeoHash achievement when me and a friend hired a boat and went to the location on water). I thought of a few, but needless to say there are quite a few possibilities. [[user:zorg|zorg]]
+My thought is this: i often leave a marker at a geohashing spot, usually with some sort of link to the wiki. I think it would be really cool if we could have a big callout box along the lines of: "Have you seen a geohashing marker? Let us know here!" and take them to a page where we can let them enter details of what they've seen and where. It would be great for us as geohashers to know that our efforts have been noticed, and we could help the visitors find out more about who left the marker. -- [[User:Sermoa|sermoa]] 12:15, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
+:Inspired by my own idea, i put a callout box on today's expedition, taking people to the talk page where i explained how to add a comment. It worked - [[Talk:2009-09-27 50 -1]] - we got a response! :) -- [[User:Sermoa|sermoa]] 00:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
-== Facebook ==
+Following our discussion at the hashpoint, I have created [[Template:Advert]] and <strike>Template:AdvertTalk</strike>. You can see them on our expedition and talk pages. I think I might tweak the text just a little though now. --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 10:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
+:No need to use Template:AdvertTalk any more. Just use Template:Advert on both the expedition page and on its talk page, and it auto-detects which it's being used on. --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 23:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
+::Nice one!  Thank you David.  --[[User:Macronencer|macronencer]] 22:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
-It was inevitable, because I am a Facebook whore: [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15670807033 Geohashing on Facebook]
+Create a page which can be linked to easily as (for instance) [http://www.geohashing.org/marker www.geohashing.org/marker] or [http://www.geohashing.org/I%20found%20a%20marker www.geohashing.org/I found a marker]. This could then be a general landing point advertised on hash markers. This page could have a '''brief''' description of hashing, an list of areas the marker might have been (or link to [[Geohashing:Current_events#Recent Expeditions]] and it's list of recent hashes) where people could find out about the particular expedition the marker relates to (if there is no direct link), and explain how to add comments. There's other stuff that could be added I guess, as long as we don't overwhelm people. --[[User:MykaDragonBlue|mykaDragonBlue &#91;- i have no sig -&#93;]] 23:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
-I might start work on an app after I finish my current one. [[User:Gormster|Gormster]] 12:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+:I like that idea!  Shouldn't be too hard to swing that, just a crash course on the sport.  You could use a lot of the same information the Ambassador letters contain, if you wanted to have a template to work off of. --[[User:Oracle989|Oracle989]] 02:49 UTC 2009-10-12
+::I started something: ''[[Marker]]'' - please help to elaborate. ;) -- [[User:relet|relet]] 08:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
+:::That's a great start, relet!  I have a suggestion for another item on that page: I think some landowners might be concerned that this kind of thing will happen to them again (perhaps they've heard of geocaching and are expecting more visitors in the future).  Maybe we should have a paragraph explaining that this is unlikely in the near future due to the probabilities involved (unless they own a LOT of land!) --[[User:Macronencer|macronencer]] 11:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
-: There are also some local groups.  So far, I know of: [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15088608365 Geohash - Toronto], [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15689296199 IVSLO Geohashers] (Southern Cal somewhere?), and [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=23222385469 Geohash - Denver] (which I created, for the record).  --[[User:Doubt|Doubt]] 21:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+== Geo Hashing talk:Community Portal ==
-== Automatic GPX File Generator ==
+It appears that the convention is to put general discussion on this page, so I'm moving the two discussion points from [[Geohashing talk:Community Portal]] to this page, and leaving a message suggesting people write here instead. The next two entries were moved from that page. --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 23:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
-I have modified the sample perl implementation so that it automatically generates a .gpx file which you can upload to your favourite GPS device/software. Download here: [http://discarded-ideas.org/files/geohash.pl]
+== Main page image URL ==
-Before you use the script, you need to modify it and put your own lat/lon values into the corresponding variables at the beginning.
-~~Wansti
-== Use of one degree grid sucks ==
+I noticed that the URL on the picture shown on the main page is (accidentally, I assume) wrong - this address sends you to the Boston graticule map instead of the wiki's main page. Maybe someone with access outside of the wiki could change the redirection so it sends you to the wiki instead? And/or we could swap the picture for one with the wiki address, there should be enough of them to choose from.
+--[[User:Ekorren|Ekorren]] 19:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
+:That's a kind of common mistake. I assume that the map has existed before the wiki did. Therefore xkcd.com/geohashing and www.xkcd.com/geohashing redirect to the map - wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing is the only valid wiki address. I also think that it would be a good idea to have the redirect changed. -- [[User:Relet|Relet]] 20:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
-The usage of integer lat/long as the grid for this is really simple but it doesn't perform well. For example, the DC metro area is split into four zones each which contain a small populated area and a large area no one wants to travel to. Alternatively, consider Milwaukee Wi, where there is a 80% chance of the meeting location being in the middle of Lake Michigan, likewise for a number of other coastal cities.
+== Translation in French ==
-Instead what should be done is someone should search for a tessellation of the world where each tile has the same area  as a 1deg/1deg grid but optimized on the following criteria:
+Hi everyone, french-speaking Belgian geohasher here!
-* Tiles should not span national borders.
-* Where the boundary lines avoid areas of large population
-* Tiles should not simultaneously contain large amount of water and non-trivial numbers of people
-* Any others?
-Once a tessellation is found the hashing could just be an index into each tile.  It would be somewhat more complex, and require knowing the tessellation, but it's not like anyone is doing MD5 in their heads.
+I'd love to help you translating the wiki into Molière's language. I'm not officially an interpreter, but my french is almost perfect (I actually say that just to pretend I am humble, but it IS in fact perfect), and I am good enough with computers to help, even if I'm not used to working with wikis.
-Perhaps a contest could be held for tessilations? People could compute ones then argue why theirs were the best. ;) --[[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] 22:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
+Anyway, if you think I can help, please tell me so on [[User:pierre.blondelle|my page]] (See? See? I'm playing with links!)
-:People don't want to travel there? I wouldn't be quite so sure about that. Geocaching is rather popular in large foresty areas, and the visited hashes we've seen so far were busy enough even though they were in the middle of nowhere. I actually see your point, but I think that it's not possible to create anything better than this which isn't particularly difficult or annoying to implement. As for the national borders - I'm fairly happy that's not too much of an issue here in Europe ;) [[User:Nazgjunk|Nazgjunk]] 22:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-::At least you can expect find something at a geocache. Seems to me that the value of a geohash is meeting the other hashers. When the selected location is often multi-hour drive (due to geographic features and lacking roads) into an unpopulated area it's likely that no one will show. So people will lose interest and be aware of it the few times it is in a good location. With something around 300 geocaches found I think I've only run into other geocachers three or four times or so, and most geocaches are in locations far less random than geohash locations.
-::Even when crossing borders is easy, differences in available data might lead to different tessellation rules. I know where to get good population data for the US, but I don't personally know how to get the same data for Mexico.   :)
-::As far as complexity goes.. geohashing already requires an MD5 .. is indexing into a big table of polygons that much harder?  :) (though the MD5 should be dropped.. if the random seed is random enough, just xoring the digits should be more than random enough...) --[[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] 22:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-::: No one claims the DJIA is very random.  But with the MD5, even the slightest change produces a completely new point.  That's why I'd argue the MD5 should never be dropped. [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 23:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
-:In Europe, meeting with people from other countries only makes it more fun. Integer grids are good, you can always go to another graticule if it's closer. Nobody says you should take your home's location, you can travel to another location and take the geohash there. --[[User:FrederikVds|FrederikVds]] 13:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-== Algorithm shortcomings: are we missing the point? ==
+If you're not sure I'm a dedicated geohasher, you should know that even if I've been geohashing only once so far, I've already posted a nude picture of my formidable, hatted self. That should be enough for anyone I guess.
-A significant number of people are commenting on "shortcomings" in the algorithm. e.g. some cities are split between over multiple graticules, meet up points over water, the Dow not suitable because of time zones, etc, etc, etc......
+:I should be able to proof-read content-wise. I speak fluently, but I am not a native speaker. And I support translations. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 11:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
-While from a geek standpoint I admire the pursuit to "improve" the algorithm, I think its missing the point. My interpretation of Geo Hashing is it’s about a chance to do something out of the ordinary, make our lives a bit weirder, and maybe even meet and communicate with your fellow human beings. The algorithm itself is just a starting point for these activities. Even the "perfect" Geo Hashing algorithm isn't going to make these things happen unless we step outside the front door.
+:So, what should I translate, and how? If someone could give me the links, I could work on it soon. [[User:pierre.blondelle|pierre]] 13:49, 7 July 2009 (GMT+1)
- --[[User:Lowman|Lowman]] 00:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-: Absolutely - and it's absolutely geekily cool that we're taking a numerical contruction (latitude and longitude) and laying it over the physical and human geography, and saying - "no, sorry, we're sticking with th numbers..."  Then, there's the fact that I'm doing something here in rural Norway that you're doing in - wherever - Chicago, Portland, London, whatever.  So please, stop trying to break this thing.  If you want to organize something centred on  your city, or optimised for your life, join the Kiwanis. (not to degrade the Kiwanis - they're cool, just they're not GeoHashing). [[User:AshleyMorton|AshleyMorton]] 00:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-: Lowman is spot on. I completely agree. It's supposed to be random. "Fixing" and "Improving" something like this just detracts from the core purpose: to go with the flow and have fun. Adding constraints just weighs everything down. That said, it's gotta be annoying for those residing on tiny islands. When the coastguard picks you up from an offshore reef on Saturday, tell your rescuers "the internet made me do it". - [[User:Somersault|Somersault]] 03:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
+== Hashpoint from 0001 to 0930 ==
-: I'll agree here, so what if half the graticule is over water or in another country, wont that just make it more special when you do <i>finally</i> get to go to one? --[[User:Zorg|Zorg]] 07:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
+Sorry if this is answered elsewhere, but is there a hashpoint on Monday through Friday: midnight to 0930? I am in the Eastern USA.  Thanks!  --  [[User:LuxMundi|LuxMundi]] 19:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
+:I think the answer to that is no, at your location.  I'm in the UK and our local hashes are available for 24 hours because of the W30 rule, but west of W30 folks have to wait for the stock market to open for that day - except at weekends, of course, as the Friday opening balance is used.  Hope that helps!  --[[User:Macronencer|macronencer]] 20:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
+::I agree that you are correct, but it just seems strange to me that there are basically 2 whole days (47.5 hours) with no hash point (in this time zone).  It seems like we should be able to use the previous days hash until 0930, or use the East of 30 coords, call it an "Early Riser's Hash".  Today, we had 2 1/2 hours of sunlight, with no hashpoint, but sunset is at 1740, so I don't leave work until after dark. --[[User:LuxMundi|LuxMundi]] 21:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
+:::Yeah, I guess making hashes for 24 hours after their announcement for everyone would have been the fairer choice. I've never read the original discussion though. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 16:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
+:::I'm guessing that the original focus was on the 4pm meetups, and the idea was to leave just enough to time to get to them.  As popularity grew, countries around the world joined in, people with 9-5 jobs went for evening hashes, the more adventurous attempted midnight mountaineering, and the capacity of the original idea was stretched to breaking point.  I do feel bad about the unfairness.  In Europe we really benefit from the W30 rule as there's always a hash to go to at any time (assuming it's reachable).  If the rules were changed, I'd favour allowing the use of the previous day's co-ordinates until the new ones became available (for those west of W30) - I think that would be the easiest option as it would avoid complicated modifications to existing co-ordinate calculators.  The hash point for a day would still be the hash point for that day calculated the same way as always, but the difference would be one of logistics: just allow extended use beyond midnight, depending on the region.  The only trouble with this is knowing exactly at what point the DJIA is announced.  If you were on a trip to a hash point at 0930 on the East coast of the USA and have no Internet then you would have a problem :) --[[User:Macronencer|macronencer]] 11:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
+::Being new here, when I figured this out, I thought it was really unfair that there wasn't a hash for a third of the day, but it makes sense because a new day is a new hash/potential adventure. Just sucks that early risers don't have an option. That being said, I don't think the current day's hash should just disappear at midnight. If I'm out camping or out on the town and decide to hit a hash at 1am, even though my phone says it's the next day, I don't consider it 'tomorrow' until I go to sleep. Since this whole concept is based on the Honor System, what if we set up the rule so that as long as you haven't "gone to sleep for the night" and it's before 9am, the previous day's hash is still open to you(the exception would obviously be the weekend/holiday days where there is a new hash ready and waiting). The Expedition page should be written up for that day's hash and times should be noted but not penalized. In other words, Thursday night at 12:37am(Friday morning in reality) I made it to the hash. I would then write up the expedition under (Thursday's) 2014-08-28 42 -78 and just note that I was out with friends and decided to try for the midnight hash but got delayed somewhere. Or I decided to go at 2am for whatever reason but before going to bed. [[User:Pedalpusher|Pedalpusher]] ([[User talk:Pedalpusher|talk]]) 11:29, 27 August 2014 (EDT)
-::Another vote of agreement here. For the vast majority of people, if they really want to go to a location, you can travel to the next graticule over, which won't be more than a couple hours away. And even if you can't do that, one in every 20 or 25 times it will be in a decent location. If you want more than that, start geocaching or go on a site where humans have picked the locations. The fun of random is that it doesn't always work. Who wants to meet every week or go to a location every day anyway? It would get old way too fast if it was too easy to do. --[[User:Cahlroisse|Cahlroisse]] 08:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
+== Login CAPTCHA issues ==
-== Difference between the comic and the generator ==
+<strike>The login CAPTCHA is a big problem for programs that need to login. Specifically, for me, Commonist can no longer login to batch upload images. Presumably other programs will have problems too - hashdroid for example?
-Zigdon, xkcd:
+I can understand a CAPTCHA on account creation, but I'm not sure why we need one on login - is there seriously a problem with programs brute-forcing passwords that isn't already being handled by the lock-out mechanism? (I don't know the specifics of the lock-out, but I do know I just locked myself out from my regular account for a while).
-The hash in the comic for 2005-05-26-10458.68 starts with db9318........
+I note that the XKCD IRC wiki requires a CAPTCHA for account creation but not for login. I assume this is how our wiki used to be too.
-Here's debugging info for the map page's calculation of http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/:
+I vote the login CAPTCHA is removed urgently! --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 20:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)</strike>
-Graticule: (37, -123) - (38, -122)<br>
+: Apparently it's only happening for my IP address. I guess I've locked myself out! --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 21:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
-Market open on 2005-05-26 = 10458.68<br>
-MD5(2005-05-26-10458.68 ): '''357e5cac889681628fdd754c1a235919'''<br>
-Split: 357e5cac88968162, 8fdd754c1a235919<br>
-offset = 0.20895938122029104, 0.5619729338451526<br>
-.20895938122029 -122.56197293384515<br>
-On my machine:
+:: I would still like to see an exemption for Commonist. All too often I'm getting login failures - if I login as davidcx and then login as davidc, for example (neither with a password failure), the simple fact that I've been to the login page from this IP three times in one day seems to be enough to trigger the CAPTCHA. --[[User:Davidc|davidc]] 23:33, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
-$ md5 -s "2005-05-26-10458.68"<br>
-MD5 ("2005-05-26-10458.68") = db9318c2259923d08b672cb305440f97
-Any idea what's going on here? Is that an extra space on the end there, Zig?
+== HTTPS ==
-<br>--FunkyTuba
-    I've found a bunch of opening values at http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/
+Can we get a HTTPS server for the wiki? (It would be nice to have it a bit more secure, if it's not too much trouble to turn that on) -- [[User:relet|relet]] 07:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
-    with carriage returns on the end, which I dont think were being stripped out before
-    hashing. The website went down before I could fully confirm though.
-    --[[User:ZorMonkey|ZorMonkey]] 11:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-:: That was indeed the case, fixed now. [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] 14:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
+I second this —particularly as (AFAIK) any user login authentication will be sent in cleartext. Who is the correct person to ask about this regarding implementation of SSL on this Wiki? --[[User:Saxbophone|Saxbophone]] ([[User talk:Saxbophone|talk]]) 13:15, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
-== iPhone Implementation ==
+== Can we make the "Discussion" button more visible? ==
-Last night I finished a rough implementation of this to the iPhone 2.0 Beta SDK.  Right now it uses your current location and date and then does the math, then gives you a map with the destination address along with directions to there from where you are at.  This will be even more useful if the next 3G iPhone come with GPS, until then it uses it's less accurate cellular and wifi location tools to locate you.  I plan on adding a way to select your date and your desired graticule as well.  Eventually I'll also investigate filtering of the results in watery areas.  I can't distribute it currently, but as soon as I can I'll make it available.
+The usual place where people comment on your expedition report is on its discussion page. Everything else is discussed on that page too. I would love to have that discussion blue/red link a little larger, to alert people that there actually have been some comments. Ideally, I'd like to have a largish button in the title bar saying "n Comments/Commentators/Discussion threads" - which could count either the number of users talking on the discussion page, or the number of sections including section zero (which might be easier). -- [[User:relet|relet]] 07:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
--- [[User:Shakedown | Shakedown]]
-: Should be moved to [[iPhone]]
+== machine parseable coordinate reference, datepages ==
-== Saturday's meetingpoint ==
+Is there a source for daily coordinates that is reliably machine parseable. I'm currently using the datepages, but the format of the html code around the coordinates changes, both based on day of week, and when someone fiddles with it. Ideally this would be a very bare static file for each day, not processed through mediawiki to minimise server load. It should have the east and west coordinates separately, even when they are the same, and also the global coordinates.  [[User:Alh|Alh]] 08:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
+:There should be several potential sources available, you could take a look into the [[Implementations]] page. My own [[User:Ekorren/Hash Inquiry Tool|Small Hash Inquiry Tool]] (aka anthill) offers a special ''minimum mode'' which is made to be a minimalistic source for further processing. I admit that I haven't really followed the developments of other people during the past months, so I can't give you an overview. --[[User:Ekorren|Ekorren]] 09:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
+The usual way is to query one of the DJIA sources and use one of the [[implementations]] to calculate all the hashes you need.
+* http://geo.crox.net/djia/%s where %s is any of several date-like string formats
+* http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/YYYY/MM/DD
+The former checks three different sources for the correct DJIA and publishes it when two of them agree on the opening price. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 17:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
-I was wondering. Is the saturdaymeetingpoint calculated with the date of saturday and the dow opening of friday? Or is the date you use always the date of the dow opening?
+== Ambassador template ==
---[[User:Evo--|Evo--]] 13:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-: My understanding is that you hash in Saturday's date, so that the locations for Fri, Sat & Sun are all different, and are available at 09:30 EDT on Friday.  Speaking of which, could someone post the Saturday location?  I don't have a hasher. [[User:AshleyMorton|AshleyMorton]] 13:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
-== RSS Feed ==
+Anyone has a ambassador template I can start from or do I have to make a new one from scratch when I translate it? --[[User:Vswe|Vswe]] 18:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
-I noticed yesterday that before the stock exchange data becomes available, the feed creates a kind of 'intemediary' geohash using todays date and yesterday's data. This might be intentional, but personally I find that undesirable on weekdays. Could it be modified to show yesterday's date and geohash until data is available? [[User:Nicktaylor|Nicktaylor]] 14:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
+:[[Template:Ambassador_geohash]]? --[[User:Crox|Crox]] 21:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
+:: Oh, sorry for being unclear, I meant the images ([[Media:Ambassador-EN-GB.png]] for example). And I didn't meant a wiki template, more like a photoshop image or something similar. Couldn't be more unclear with my first sentence though. :P --[[User:Vswe|Vswe]] 22:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
+:: Well the first two pictures occuring in it can be found [[:File:Coordinates.png|here]] and [[:File:Landgeohash.png|here]] and for the example graticule with coordinates you should probably take something from Sweden [if I'm guessing correctly that this is the language you want to translate it into?] like the [[Stockholm, Sweden| Stockholm graticule]] - just take a screnshot from [http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?lat=59&long=18&zoom=9&abs=-1 peeron] would be my suggestion. Is this the kind of information you were looking for? --[[User:HiroProtagonist|HiroProtagonist]] 23:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
+::: I was wondering if there was something I could start from or if I have to do it from scratch. Apparently there isn't anything else to start from so I guess I have to make it from nothing. --[[User:Vswe|Vswe]] 14:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
+== Categorization question ==
+I just looked at [[Special:UncategorizedPages]] again and I'm not sure how pages should be categorized about expeditions that didn't take place and nobody ever intended to, for example [[2010-05-05 45 -75]]. As far as I see we have
+* [[:Category:Expedition_planning]] --> for expeditions that people planned to go on, but didn't even start out
+* [[:Category:Not reached - Did not attempt]] --> for an actual expedition/meet up that did take place but people never attempted to reach the actual spot of the hash
+Is that about right?
+:Yes, as far as I can see. — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sub> 15:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
+Then what to do with pages that were just created to point out a good spot without any intention of somebody ever going there? I don't think that's "Expedition planning" but "Not reached - Did not attempt" is for actual expeditions... New category? Or should such pages just be deleted? --[[User:HiroProtagonist|HiroProtagonist]] 03:26, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
+:I think what's happened in the past is that the text has been moved to the graticule page.  For example, if the expedition page simply says something like "This is a good spot -- behind the bike sheds at NASA headquarters" but it doesn't look like anyone's tried to go there, you could just add that sentence to the "Hashes considered" section on the graticule page, or similar -- exactly where depends on how the page is organised -- and delete the unused expedition page.  With some, it's hard to tell, so maybe leave them a month or two and come back to them later.  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sub> 15:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
+== Problem with Google Maps lookup/link, 2010-11-19 ==
+The Peeron lookup map was a little slow, so I tried the Google Maps link.  Nov 11 for 490 -74 (Newark NJ) was in Middletown NJ, according to this link.  When Peeron came up, it gave a different location, close to I-195.  The OSM link and Geohash Droid concur with Peeron.  Can anyone determine what's wrong with the Google link, and how long it's been out of sync with other calculators? -- [[User:Jevanyn|Jevanyn]] 15:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
+:which link did you use? and was it still wrong after Peeron updated? when in doubt, I'd recommend to use Ekorren's [[User:Ekorren/Hash_Inquiry_Tool|Hash Inquiry Tool]], since it uses several sources for the DJIA value. --[[User:Crox|Crox]] 20:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
+== New user spam ==
+Due to the many new users joining and spamming (the CAPTCHAs don't seem to help), something needs to be done.
+* http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/113003 (Getting users to confirm emails. Not sure if this is already done)
+* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension%3aConfirmAccount (Which requires someone -- I think me -- to confirm all new accounts. I'm not entirely sure how much setup is required for this -- there's a section on adding sql tables to the db as well, which I'm not really keen on. Plus how much configiration is needed to get it all working, and how much hassle it's going to be to approve people).
+Other thoughts/suggestions are appreciated. --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 21:53, 14 September 2011 (EDT)
+:Getting users to confirm account creation after sending them an email is never a bad idea, I think. Don't know whether it's already done either, though, and don't want to create an account just try it out.
+:Approval by a moderator should only be used as last resort, and only if the number of moderators authorized to approve accounts is large enough that approval is usually done within of minutes. If people are forced to wait for some moderator to return from an expedition, holiday or a phase of general ignorance of duties until they can finish their registration and contribute stuff, they probably won't come back after they are approved.
+:Also, by which criteria do you want to approve accounts? Some spam accounts have speaking names, other's don't, some legitimate user names don't really look different, and at that time there's nothing else you have to go by. You'll need a very good fortune-teller to tell apart legitimate and spam users before their first contribution. I currently think the risk of losing legitimate users weighs heavier than a few spam pages. --[[User:Ekorren|Ekorren]] 05:53, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
+::The only real way to rid our website from spam is to make it harder to spam our website than it is to spam other websites. Well, as in return on investment is much lower on our website than others. I would say as little time as a spam page exist on our site that the return on time invested it fairly low. We seem to have several users monitor the recent changes page and are able to delete spam pages within an hour of being setup.
+::Yes it is time consuming but it does appear to be working as a new user then sees his spam page taken down in minutes, that new user never posts another page to our site. I know there are thousands of spammers out there. But I do believe that the current method that we have appears to be the lessor of all evils. --[[User:NWoodruff|NWoodruff]] 09:53, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
+:::The problem is that that method can induce burn-out, which is a more insidious problem. -- [[User:Phyzome|Phyzome]] 14:14, 17 September 2011 (EDT)
+:::The spammers' latest approach seems to be: create a user account (because you need one), create a new spam page, throw away the account. They ''don't care'' that the page is down in minutes or days, because they're paid by the edit. Once they've left a link and followed it from our site, they get paid. Removing it later just cleans up afterward.  My opinion is, don't raise the bar for new members (how many legit new members are we getting?), unless it's a one-on-one chat with the user to make sure they're not Peggy. Yes, email confirmation will slow down the barbarians, but it's no replacement for the personal approach. -- [[User:Jevanyn|Jevanyn]]
+:From the account creation page: "E-mail address is optional, but is needed for password resets, should you forget your password. You can also choose to let others contact you through your user or talk page without needing to reveal your identity." -> I would recommend we enable e-mail validation as a first measure. --[[User:Crox|Crox]] 07:59, 24 September 2011 (EDT)
+Personally, I don't think the number of moderators needs to be high enough to allow approvals in minutes.   Geohashing ain't
+exactly an instant gratification sport.  Even if it took a couple of days, I'd think it would be okay.  I'm afraid, though,
+that we will not
+be raising the bar very much.   The spammers will just pay a MTurk'er type of setup a little bit to set up their account
+and then use it for spamming.  But it seems like a reasonable next step.  [[User:Jiml|Jiml]] 13:34, 23 September 2011 (EDT)
+== Problems with peeron map? ==
+I'm getting errors with the peeron map. It gives out an error message that says a new google API key needs to be created. After that it simply says "Your browser doesn't seem to be compatible with google maps." (it is. I have always used peeron maps to get the location of a geohash. Also, I tried three different browsers. I don't think they all are incompatible with google maps ;) ). So, whoever runs irc.peeron.com propably needs to create a new google API key... :/ --[[User:Bierhefe|Bierhefe]] 10:53, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
+:Use carabiner.peeron.com instead and it should be fine. You may also want to check [http://tjum.anthill.de/geohash.html Ekorren's Geohash tool] (see also [[User:Ekorren/Hash_Inquiry_Tool]]). --[[User:Crox|Crox]] 15:14, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
+That solution is kinda a problem.  We have a lot of links to http://irc.peeron.com in the wiki, and all of those will break with this "fix".
+Also, we have http://irc.peeron.com/ embedded deep  inside the wiki in the map (or graticule ?) template and so the maps on most of the expedition pages don't work.  [[User:Jiml|Jiml]] 15:49, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
+:Perhaps ask zigdon to do some kind of forwarding? Dunno. Has someone pinged him on irc/emailed him? --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 16:19, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
+::Wait -- there are only like, a bunch of templates we have to change? What's the problem? --[[User:Joannac|joannac]] 16:25, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
+:A lot of pages have actual links to http://irc.peeron.com/something?lat=33+long=33 that are part of the text, not from a template.  [[User:Jiml|Jiml]] 21:40, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
+::I went and changed all the graticules near me. We just need everyone else to do the same. --[[User:NWoodruff|NWoodruff]] 09:53, 22 September 2011 (EDT)
+:Could someone with database access do a global search and replace from irc.peeron.com to carabiner.peeron.com? Many/most pages still contain the old address and the links don't work. Could this be put in a template so if the website moves again, only one template need fixing. Thanks for the excellent site. [[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] 08:30, 2 January 2012 (EST)
+::Better to have a bot do it. -- [[User:Jevanyn|Jevanyn]] 09:37, 3 January 2012 (EST)
+The Peeron map embedded in the expedition template is currently not displaying the correct coordinates. Is there anyone that has a clue? --[[User:Fasanen|Fasanen]] 08:31, 11 February 2012 (EST)
+The Peeron map has said that "market data is not available" since yesterday (2012-04-16).  Meaning today and yesterday, the map has not displayed coordinates for any graticule (and I tried all over- america, europe, asia, etc.).  I'm not a computer person, so I really don't know what to do.  Nor am I a wiki person.  I can calculate coordinates on my own, so I'm not too worried, but still, Peeron is buggy.  -[[User:MayorOfBoxTown|MayorOfBoxTown]] 09:52, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+:In the meantime, check http://relet.net/geco - it does basically the same thing, just more reliable. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 11:11, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+:: It's blocked at my work :(   [[User:MayorOfBoxTown|MayorOfBoxTown]] 11:23, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+::: Huh, why is that? -- [[User:relet|relet]] 12:19, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+:::: Dunno.  A lot of things are that shouldn't be and vice-versa. Pandora is, but Tumblr isn't, so I just stopped trying to figure out the logic of things here.  -[[User:MayorOfBoxTown|MayorOfBoxTown]] 15:15, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+::: FWIW, relet/geco is semiblocked at [[User:Hijackal|Hijackal]]s current work, too. I get a page asking me warning about potential dangers, but can click something along the lines of "I know, everything I do will be logged" and get to the dangerous DJIA. This happens to a few privately operated pages, but not to many. The black/grey/whitelist there depends on whether one uses Wifi or wire, and status within the organization, though. In some random way we haven't figured out yet, my supervisor's wired PC isn't allowed on some pages my wireless notebook can access... --[[User:Hijackal|Hijackal]] 22:24, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+:::: Interesting. I was just curious what kind of greylist that server landed on. Might be something co-hosted, or essentially random, but still. Well. Your Internet Is Broken[tm]. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 02:54, 18 April 2012 (EDT)
+== Abortive responses from server? ==
+I'm a bit fed up, last weekend I spent several hours trying to upload a set of photos, and setting report text (finally suceeded), but the site doesn't respond nicely to me.  No (obvious) problems with any other web-site, but I'm editing this in Firefox (currently still working, but I expect it to go bad shortly) and the Internet Explorer 'source' of the page that hasn't loaded terminates at the '<tr' text (indeed, no no closing angle-bracket/greater-than) immediately after the '<table class="infobox"...' tag.  On the machine next to this one IE has paused part way through the A HREF for the 'geco' link for Today's Location on the page (the one for my home graticule) that I'm viewing.
+Firefox on the other machine is just waiting for wiki.xkcd.com, while this one is currently still working, but I fully expect it to fail, perhaps while posting this.  Again, no other website is doing this.  So: Browser problems? (But: Multiple browsers)  Machine problems?  (But: Multiple machines)  ISP problems?  (But: ''Not'' happening to any other websites.)  Site problems?  (But: Haven't found anyone else complaining)
+I've been a bit quiet about this, but it's one reason why I've left a bit of a backlog of 2011 reports not fully (or actually) completed, or at least yet uploaded all pictures I had intended, and managed to let it slide.  Any ideas of what to do?  --[[User:Monty|Monty]] 20:51, 13 January 2012 (EST)
+:I did some additional checking, during a free moment, once I'd outstayed my apparent browsing limit on the neighbouring machine to this.  My home graticule page for Sheffield, UK appears to stick (in IE) at 497th character whehn checking the source (Firefox just stops responding).  Page for Blackpool, UK (same URL length, thus assumed same HTTP header overheads) also stops at 497th character, albeit a different exact point in the source, with (among other things) differing lengths of neighbouring graticule names being already part of each truncated source.  Both figures include an assumed 1 byte for LF/NL (47 vs 48).  I also checked the 'Gibraltar' page and 444 chars+47LFs give ''491'', but with a URL length difference of 16, so (whether you assume header counts towards 'traffic length' or not) not so neatly the same value, or even would be with multiple mentions of the URL during handshaking, but ''very'' close.  Not going to preview this, because last time I tried that I got the same server non-response and could procede to post, so going to have to hope I've not left rogue formatting in.--[[User:Monty|Monty]] 09:01, 26 January 2012 (EST)
+::Updated update: Just now finding that Peeron links (via ActiveGeohasher) are complaining about that invalid Google API thingy, I get redirected to the XKCD main page.  While I'm still waiting for the first browser tab that I tried to open to load up the Sheffield graticule page.  I'm really wanting/needing to make some Wiki updates, but this is a bit annoying...  --[[User:Monty|Monty]] 23:49, 24 February 2012 (EST)
+:::Well, I'd not much to say, recently (did some expiditing that needs writing up, and even reading the site, or at least something like Peeron, for absolutely every day's possible expeditions), but regret I'd not even been writing anything so never noticed before, but the situation may have changed.  I don't know why, but I'm so far (cross fingers!) today still able to post without getting time-outs on pages.  So, whatever it was (website, webserver, one ISP or other, local network, personal machines' interaction with the OSI stack, browser updates..?) it ''might'' be fixed.  Knock on wood, eh? --[[User:Monty|Monty]] 13:23, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
+== Flags represent countries, not languages ==
+See [http://imagexmedia.com/support/faqs/general-questions/how-should-language-selection-be-displayed-web How Should Language Selection be Displayed on the Web?].
+In Spain there are four official languages, and Spanish is spoken in more than 20 countries. [[User:Toño|Toño]] 10:23, 28 February 2012 (EST)
+:I agree. But I also think that the most correct solution is not always the most helpful. The point being, if you really stand in front of a wall of text in a completely foreign language, you scan for visual clues first. And when you see a flag you will at least get a version that can probably be understood by someone from that country. I have no idea for a better symbol, unless maybe a big stack of flags that when clicked leads you to an extended selection. I live myself in a country where, when clicking on "your" flag, you have a 50% chance that you do not get to read the language you are speaking... still it's easier than finding the words Nynorsk or Bokmål or Norsk or Norwegian on a wall of text, possibly written in characters that I am not even used to. I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 12:38, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+== This should go without saying, but... ==
+An April Fool's joke that renders the site unusable is really, really, really, really obnoxious.  I've lost time, money, and the fun of writing up an expedition over this shit.
+If people can't use the website, geohashing ceases to be fun, and it dies.  Do you understand that?  Whoever is responsible: please undo your joke, congratulate yourself that you've succeeded in pissing someone off, and please, please, please: don't do it again.  [[User:Michael5000|Michael5000]] 17:22, 31 March 2012 (EDT)
+I have no idea what you're complaining about. The site looks fine to me. If you're having issues you can always figure out the geohash location for yourself. The formula is available in multiple places
+--[[User:Nameless|Nameless]] 19:05, 31 March 2012 (EDT)
+Yes.  I used one of them, and went on a geohashing expedition.  Then I thought I would write it up, which is the function of this wiki.
+Listen.  I LOVE geohashing, really love it.  And I love being part of this community.  But this joke, ha ha ha, is pretty unnerving: it reminds me that I've plowed hundreds, probably thousands ,of hours into an activity that centers around a website which I have no control over whatsoever.  Seeing the site being disabled so cavalierly is... sobering.
+Thank you, I suppose, for not jeering more than you did at my concerns and lost time when granting me a workaround.  [[User:Michael5000|Michael5000]] 19:47, 31 March 2012 (EDT)
+:For the records: I'm with you there Michael5000, and have complained as well. I just hope it will not happen again. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 12:30, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+::Any chance you could mention what it was that pissed people off that much? I happened to be offline during the time. - [[User:Mampfred|Mampfred]] 17:47, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+:::The wiki was rotated 180 degrees using a css rotate style, because of something with Australia. Scrolling (and moving the cursor) in edit boxes is pretty broken when up and down are turned. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 18:26, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
+For the records: I thought it was funny. If you don't like it, turn your display upside down. If you really don't like it, come back on April 2nd. The wiki is upside down? Well, the server might even be down sometimes. Life goes on. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? ;) - [[User:Paintedhell|Paintedhell]] 04:07, 18 April 2012 (EDT)
+:I didn't say I don't think it was funny. But it didn't work correctly and didn't get fixed. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 04:41, 18 April 2012 (EDT)
+== Please, allow bigger files (at least 2MB) ==
+Resizing every single photo is quite irritating [[User:mkoniecz|mkoniecz]] 01:29, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
+:The limit was 2MB last time I checked. I agree that it is irritating - we used to have it pretty high, but experienced the server running out of memory when it had to resize too many pictures at the same time. I would support raising the limit if it is maintainable. -- [[User:relet|relet]] 03:03, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
+::Weird. Upload of file smaller than 2MB failed. So - lets make it 3MB. [[User:mkoniecz|mkoniecz]] 03:14, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
+== Is it possible to extend mapimg tag to include also globalhash location? ==
+It would be nice to have possibility to check for this 1/86400 possibility without checking separate service. [[User:mkoniecz|mkoniecz]] 11:06, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
+==Randomness and The Algorithm==
+Has anyone done an analysis of the randomness of [[The Algorithm]]'s decimal parts? (... hence the randomness of the Dow values?)
+*If yes, then where might I find the results?
+*If no, then where is the data? (... that feeds [[Origin geohash achievement]]/[[Displaced origin geohash achievement]]?)
+Just wondering.[[User:1PE|1PE (Canberra)]] 02:55, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
+:I think<sup>[''<font color="blue">[[Citation Needed|citation needed]]</font>'']</sup> that it's generally acknowledged that the md5 hashing algorithm produces pseudo-random results.  The Dow values aren't pseudo-random at all, although their last few digits might be.  As for an analysis of geohash coordinates, the results of a small test are at the bottom of the "[[The Algorithm]]" page; I don't know of any others.  (Note that globalhashes ''are'' biased towards the poles, because of the shape of the Earth.)  The data for past coordinates is simply a list of DJ opening values such as can be obtained from your favourite reliable source.  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 10:07, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
+:Yup, there's actually some on the page you linked to. :D -- [[User:relet|relet]] 17:21, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
+:Hmmm.... pretty red dots, but there must be a listing of the historical Dow openings somewhere. I'll look for that. [[User:1PE|1PE (Canberra)]] 19:38, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
+::Once you find it, I'd love to see just the points since the start of this some 7½ years ago (east and west, of course). --[[User:Thomcat|Thomcat]] 19:53, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
+:::Although, of course, the original comic wasn't published until May 2008 despite using a 2005 date, so it's only 4½ really.  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 23:55, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
+== Re: What is This? ==
+The descriotion appearing on the main page was recently changed by The Muscovite. (His user name is in Russian, which I can't type right now.) I almost rolled it back outright because of the wording, but once I parsed it mentally, I adjusted the wording a little. It might be useful to have several people write their own "what is geohashing?" descriptions. Also in future, maybe brand-new geohashers shouldn't be allowed to edit the main page without someone reviewing it (not that it can't be adjusted / reverted by anyone at any time). -- [[User:Jevanyn|Jevanyn]] ([[User talk:Jevanyn|talk]]) 11:13, 26 February 2013 (EST)
+==New feature: Recent non-expeditions==
+I suggest a new front-page feature: "Recent non-expeditions". This would allow enthusiashs to document interesting hashes that are impractical, potentially dangerous, etc. I offer as an example [[2013-03-15 -34 149]] that is very near an interesting Google Maps feature: An aircraft pictured in flight. I can't justify going to the hash (70km each way) but created the 'planning' page [[2013-03-15 -34 149]] because there might well have been other geohashers going along the nearby highway who could easily detour 2km and do the hash and 'see' the Boeing 737. [[User:1PE|1PE (Canberra)]] ([[User talk:1PE|talk]]) 00:37, 15 March 2013 (EDT)
+: Okay, that's almost 2 weeks for comments. You make your mind up.[[User:1PE|1PE (Canberra)]] ([[User talk:1PE|talk]]) 10:01, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
+::see below, start page reoirganisation. [[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]]) 11:47, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
+== Links to carabiner.peeron.com broken ==
+Hi all, with the shift to a new month, I'm seeing that the links to carabiner.peeron.com are not expressing the date correctly.  Namely, the day portion is missing the leading zero.
+For example, the URL for today from the Frederick, MD page is http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-6&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=9&abs=-1.
+It should be http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-06&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=9&abs=-1
+It's easy enough to realize what's going on once I land on the peeron page but I think it's worth fixing.
+Thanks.  [[User:OfficeLinebacker|OfficeLinebacker]] ([[User talk:OfficeLinebacker|talk]]) 15:32, 6 April 2013 (EDT)OfficeLinebacker
+:The link from template (the one on the right with all the others) is correct on [[Frederick,_Maryland]]: ([http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-06&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=8 http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2013-04-06&lat=39&long=-77&zoom=8]). The one that had to be fixed is the one in the text of the page - I've just replaced LOCALDAY with LOCALDAY2 and it seems to be good now... (not sure where those are defined) --[[User:Crox|Crox]] ([[User talk:Crox|talk]]) 18:44, 6 April 2013 (EDT)
+Cheers, Crox!  [[User:OfficeLinebacker|OfficeLinebacker]] ([[User talk:OfficeLinebacker|talk]])OfficeLinebacker
+== Standard graticule page format? ==
+Hi, I'm fairly new here. I was recently going through different graticule pages looking for ideas on how to improve my [[Aurora, Illinois|home graticule's page]] and I was somewhat surprised to see that there is no standard formatting, or really any common formatting across graticule pages. There are so many different ways each is laid out, not only is it difficult to determine how I should proceed, but some pages are just plain difficult or bothersome to navigate due to the way they're formatted. They contain quite a bit of useful information, so it's kind of a shame that these pages haven't been streamlined yet. If I may be so bold, I'd like to propose we put together some kind of standard format for these pages. It would make things a lot easier to navigate and understand, especially for newcomers like myself. [[User:Mystrsyko|Mystrsyko]] ([[User talk:Mystrsyko|talk]]) 13:55, 30 November 2013 (EST)
+:Welcome to the greatest game on Earth, Mystersyko.  Regarding graticule page format, I think the community would want to hear your specific ideas.  Certainly there's room for improvement.  But not having a cut-and-dried format has allowed local communities -- which often means a single person, of course -- to set up their home graticule the way they like it, and a universal format that undid their work would probably be frustrating to a lot of people.  (As somebody who has pioneered a lot of grats, I consider getting to set up the graticule page part of my reward for getting there first -- with the proviso, of course, that it's a wiki, so if you don't like how I set it up, you can show me how to do it right.)  Part of the reason you are confused, I suspect, is that you are from Chicago, which has the weird "shifted graticule" thing going on.  I don't understand the logic of the shifted graticule, and frankly it doesn't quite seem cricket to me, but at least one person in Chicago must have liked the idea at some point, and if they are still active you'll probably need to either learn to love it, talk people out of it, or (most likely) just ignore it and focus on the conventional grats.  Happy geohashing! [[User:Michael5000|Michael5000]] ([[User talk:Michael5000|talk]]) 03:17, 1 December 2013 (EST)
+::Yeah, I understand the desire and to some extent the need for individuality when setting up a graticule page. I guess my idea is born more out of occasional poor formatting than the differences between formats. Some examples I see are how [[Aurora, Illinois]] is basically just a list of expeditions, which isn't terribly interesting and doesn't really give a good idea of how active it is or what character the graticule and it's hashers have. [[Atlanta, Georgia]], has, to me at least, an unneccessarily long list of "Geohashes scouted", which discourages readers from getting as far down as the beautiful tables of expedition dates and the list of local hashers. [[Chicago, Illinois]] is nearly half discussion of the mentioned "shifted graticule", which like many things on many wiki pages, seems to be a fairly dated discussion. On the other side of things, I like how [[Portland, Oregon]]'s list of hashes is limited to the 10 most recent, and further down is a nice little history of the graticule. [[Newark, New Jersey]] also has some good formatting ideas with older dates archived on other pages to reduce the clutter, and inactive local hashers archived as well.
+::I see all of this room for improvement, and all of these great ideas, but no coherency. I know a wiki is inherently a work in progress, and I find traces of that work here and there. I'd like to see the place continue to improve, but being a newbie I can't bring myself to jump in a start changing things around on everyone. I guess to sum up everything I'm trying to say; hi, I'm here to help, lol. :) [[User:Mystrsyko|Mystrsyko]] ([[User talk:Mystrsyko|talk]]) 22:31, 1 December 2013 (EST)
+==Navigation bar "broken"? Tools list is missing==
+When updating an expedition, or rather trying to, I realized the Upload File link and other tools (I think the category was "Special pages" are missing completely from the navigation bar on the left. Is this intentional, and how is one to reach it now?
+Maybe I'm daft, but it sure took me some searching time to find the page. :(
+[[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]]) 08:07, 14 January 2014 (EST)
+: It's there for me under the tools section. Maybe a CSS issue, try hard refreshing ... or panicking. - [[User:Mampfred|Mampfred]] ([[User talk:Mampfred|talk]]) 10:02, 14 January 2014 (EST)
+:: The whole tools section is gone for me (Firefox and IE)...
+After checking your reply, it was there on the main page (sans the Upload file entry), after purging the cache it's gone, again. Also, the bar is just unformatted lines of text without the usual box around them. Looks broken to me... Anyone familiar with the site's CSS care to check this? [[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]])
+:::Solved! It was the Cologne Blue skin. If you choose 'Modern' instead, it's there again. Maybe nobody but me switched this? [[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]]) 17:52, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
+==Erasing a Page or an uploaded photo==
+If I create wiki page with wrong URL and title: How can I erase it completely?
+And if I load up the wrong photo: How can I erase that from my uploaded photos?
+Greetings--[[User:Q-Owl|Q-Owl]] ([[User talk:Q-Owl|talk]]) 13:15, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
+:To really delete a page or an uploaded photo simply edit the page/photo and replace the current text with the delete template, e.g. <nowiki>{{delete|reason}}</nowiki>. At some point, an admin (i.e. [[User:Joannac|Joannac]]) will come along and delete the page permanently. - [[User:Mampfred|Mampfred]] ([[User talk:Mampfred|talk]]) 18:58, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
+:: with braces ("geschweifte Klammern") or box brackets ("eckige Klammern")? --[[User:Q-Owl|Q-Owl]] ([[User talk:Q-Owl|talk]]) 04:28, 15 May 2014 (EDT)
+::: with braces <nowiki>{{ }}</nowiki> --[[User:GeorgDerReisende|GeorgDerReisende]] ([[User talk:GeorgDerReisende|talk]]) 10:08, 15 May 2014 (EDT)
+::: Exactly as I wrote it so braces it is :) - [[User:Mampfred|Mampfred]] ([[User talk:Mampfred|talk]]) 14:00, 15 May 2014 (EDT)
+==further Translation==
+On  wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/Geo_Hashing:Community_Portal  are only very few pages to be translated. Which are the next to be translated? --[[User:Q-Owl|Q-Owl]] ([[User talk:Q-Owl|talk]]) 06:50, 18 May 2014 (EDT)
+==Most Active Geohashers==
+I would like to propose and start a discussion on the creation of a page similar to the [[Most active graticules]] page for users/geohashers. I kind of built a small example with expedition reports from January-April [[User:Mystrsyko/Test|over here.]] [[User:Mystrsyko|Mystrsyko]] ([[User talk:Mystrsyko|talk]]) 11:18, 29 May 2014 (EDT)
+:Very good idea! --[[User:Q-Owl|Q-Owl]] ([[User talk:Q-Owl|talk]]) 17:01, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
+::It's done! [[Most active Geohashers]] is now up. Years prior to 2014 will be added as I get through them. [[User:Mystrsyko|Mystrsyko]] ([[User talk:Mystrsyko|talk]]) 22:48, 9 January 2015 (EST)
+== Graticule Twinning ==
+It's like twin towns. Has anyone tried this? --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 12:02, 1 June 2015 (EDT)
+:With further thought, [[A Tale of Two Hashes achievement]] is quite similar to this idea. --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 09:39, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
+::The idea is even older than the ToTH achievement (which came up in 2009), see [[2008-12-27_51_8]]... --[[User:Crox|Crox]] ([[User talk:Crox|talk]]) 13:19, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
+== Allow KML file uploads ==
+These open in Google Earth. For example I could make a kml file with pushpins for each of the expeditions in 52, 1 and clickable links to the expedition pages. Creating the simple kml file might be easy to automate for any graticule. Users might also upload kml tracklogs for viewing in Google Earth. --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 09:39, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
+:I wholeheartedly second this. I've been sharing tracks like this with non-GPS-savvy users for a long time now, and they usually find them very easy to use as they have used Google Earth before.  [[User:Onicofago|Onicofago]] ([[User talk:Onicofago|talk]]) 22:01, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
+== what3words web and phone apps ==
+The entire globe is divided into 3x3 metre squares, each uniquely identified by three words.
+For example "[http://w3w.co/shorten.clock.chew shorten.clock.chew]" is a volcanic pool at Rotorua, New Zealand. This is accurate enough for geohashing. I've had hours of fun exploring and looking for fun combinations. So [http://w3w.co/humans.slimy.pines humans.slimy.pines] is close to Sidney Opera House. You could summon emergency services to a wilderness accident at [http://w3w.co/bypassed.then.react bypassed.then.react], pinpointing the victim to a 3x3 metre square. To make this work, the victim and the rescuer both need the app on their phone. 3G access is not needed because the database is small enough to be held on the phone. Of course GPS is needed. I wonder if this tool might inspire some new geohashing games or ribbons. --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 11:55, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
+:It occurs to me to wonder why we need to identify each 3x3 metre square with a set of words, when we have a similar tool already -- latitude and longitude.  What problem exists with using "52.21098, 0.07654" that is solved by instead using "dismember.artichoke.tweedledee"?  — <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Benjw|Benjw]]</span>&nbsp; <sub>{[[User talk:Benjw|talk]]}</sub> 14:09, 25 September 2015 (EDT)
+::The numeric notation is non memorable. I live at [http://w3w.co/aimlessly.worm.gourmet aimlessly.worm.gourmet] which at the very least makes me smile. If you put a typo into the numbers, it's valid data but a but wrong location. If you put a typo into what3words, it'll most likely tell you, no such location. --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 10:27, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
+::Of course latitude and longitude give you a good idea of the location. The three words don't unless you load up the app. --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 02:58, 29 September 2015 (EDT)
+:I came across this website years ago. I dismissed it because the three-word phrases don't translate. They claim to work in multiple languages, but the location for "little.white.house" is not the same as "poco.blanco.casa". It's basically a random word encoding, and their word database is proprietary. I don't know how widely used it is. -- [[User:Jevanyn|Jevanyn]] ([[User talk:Jevanyn|talk]]) 14:09, 30 September 2015 (EDT)
+:I'll use it to get Amazon drones to deliver beer to my tent! --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 11:29, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
+== Closest consecutive geohashes? ==
+I noticed that 2016-02-12 Friday's (Lat°43.832 Lon°23.064) and 2016-02-13 Saturday's (Lat°42.713 Lon°26.716) west of 30 are pretty close - in (42,-88) they're about 5.4km apart. Has anyone kept track of the closest daily consecutive geohashes by minute? [[User:Petek|Petek]] ([[User talk:Petek|talk]]) 15:22, 12 February 2016 (EST)
+: 5.3 km or about 3 miles. Interesting and quite unusual. I've been watching the coordinates around 52,1 closely for the last 14 months and nothing has got that close. --[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 02:42, 13 February 2016 (EST)
+: The distance between 2013-12-07 53 9 and 2013-12-08 53 9 was 1.7136 km. --[[User:GeorgDerReisende|GeorgDerReisende]] ([[User talk:GeorgDerReisende|talk]]) 05:13, 13 February 2016 (EST)
+: Not consecutive, but these two: [[2013-04-07_45_-123]] and [[2013-03-27_45_-123]] were about 100 feet and 10 days apart.  [[User:Jiml|Jiml]] ([[User talk:Jiml|talk]]) 14:52, 23 February 2016 (EST)
+:: Consecutive and reached: [[2012-11-23 49 8]] [[2012-11-22 49 8]]. They are about 3 kilometres apart. Just wanted to add them ;) - [[User:RecentlyChanged|RecentlyChanged]] ([[User_talk:RecentlyChanged|talk]])
+: For east of -30, [[2017-11-16]] & [[2017-11-17]] were ridiculously close together. For more extreme results, calculate the distance in the 89N graticules. Here at 53N, they were about 40 metres apart. -- [[User:KarMann|KarMann]] ([[User talk:KarMann|talk]]) 14:34, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
+== Coordinate computation mismatch ==
+I just realized, that the coordinate computation seems to mismatch between implementations.  I did an expedition on [[2018-05-19]] and when starting my report, there's a mismatch in the coordinates.  The meetup template shows the coordinates as '''51.4591310''', '''6.8416041''', whereas other implementations disagree:
+* [https://geohashing.info/2018-05-19/s/z:8/51,6 geohashing.info]: 51.06876635, 6.87614349
+* [http://geo.crox.net/poster/2018-05-19_51_6 crox]: 51.068766° N, 6.876143° E
+* [[Image:2018-05-19_51_6_pah_004.png|thumb|none|100px|GeoHash Droid screenshot]]
+Anyone having an idea what went wrong here?  Did I reach the correct coordinates?
+-- [[User:Pah|pah]] [[File:U+110DB.png|middle|6px|link=User:Pah]] ([[User talk:Pah|talk]]) 11:27, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
+:Hello, as far as I can tell, the reason for the mismatch is that peeron does not have the DJIA for that date: [http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/2018/05/19 http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/data/2018/05/19]
+:An implementation that 1. relies only on peeron and 2. does not handle an error/empty value is at risk of producing wrong coordinates.
+:According to three separate sources (Google, Yahoo and WSJ), the DJIA opening value for 2018-05-18 is 24707.72. This is the info that geo.crox.net uses to calculate the coordinates displayed on the poster, and, as far as I can tell, the info that geohashing.info / GeoHash Droid use as well.
+:Regards, --[[User:Crox|Crox]] ([[User talk:Crox|talk]]) 12:20, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
+::Update: [[User_talk:Zigdon#DJIA_opening_value_for_2018-05-18]]
+:: Thanks for checking and notifying [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] about it, [[User:Crox|Crox]]!  I'll take my expedition as a success then. :-) -- [[User:Pah|pah]] [[File:U+110DB.png|middle|6px|link=User:Pah]] ([[User talk:Pah|talk]]) 12:48, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
+== Google Maps API ==
+We're getting "For development purposes only" messages on google maps. Who can fix that? [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] ([[User talk:Mckaysalisbury|talk]]) 17:12, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
+:The problem is that Google have ceased to allow free access to their maps: lots of sites show that same useless image now. Many moved to using open street map instead, but I've no idea how this would be accomplished , I'm finding this wiki page stuff a steep enough learning curve ! [[User:Hedgepig|Hedgepig]]
+::Google maps api still says that basic usage is free. I think we just have an expired API dev key. [[User:Mckaysalisbury|McKay]] ([[User talk:Mckaysalisbury|talk]]) 16:44, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
+:::Can anyone fix this? Pretty please?
+I have absolutely no idea about their APIs, and would require a steep learning curve, probably. [[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]]) 17:22, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
+== Correct Coordinates? ==
+The coordinates I used yesterday, 2019-06-05, (.60977, .20472) are the same on geohashing.info, the Geohash Droid, the Small Hash tool, and xkcd.nathanwoodruff.com.  But, there's a different set shown here on the wiki (.1652345, .8947327).  Am I making a bonehead mistake of some kind?  I kind of hope so....  [[User:Michael5000|Michael5000]] ([[User talk:Michael5000|talk]]) 05:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
+:The other sources are correct and the wiki is wrong, since it also has the coordinates of past expeditions wrong. For example, according to the wiki one would have to swim for a while to reach [[2018-11-29 54 7]], when this hash actually was on land.
+:The wiki calculates the coordinates with the [[MediaWiki Implementation##dow|#dow function]], which currently seems to just return an empty string. See how the "Expected output" and "Template output" columns differ. That is because the function depends on carabiner.peeron.com, which currently is down. I hope that everything works again as soon as [[User:Zigdon|Zigdon]] puts carabiner.peeron.com back online. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 12:48, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
+::Thanks, Fippe -- I appreciate the detailed response.  One of these year's maybe I'll learn how this Wiki actually functions...
+== Facebook Page? ==
+Geohashing does not have a Facebook page. Should I make one? The chat at #geohashing on mibbit is rarely used these days.
+*Closed group?
+*Require a valid wiki user-ID?
+*Help newbies!
+*Promote the hobby!
+Comments please: [[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 04:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
+As I wrote earlier: If you are on Facebook, sure, I have no problem with it. Not sure how much other geohashers would participate though (I wouldn't, as I am not active there) --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 18:25, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
+Sounds like a good idea to get more exposure to a large audience. People who might not otherwise ever hear of geohashing would see it appearing in their friends' updates and hopefully join in the fun eventually. Would the idea be that hashers would post updates of their expeditions to the geohashing page? I'm not a Facebook user either, so I'm not too familiar with it... [[User:FelixTheCat|FelixTheCat]] ([[User talk:FelixTheCat|talk]]) 09:21, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
+:If no one opposes the idea, I'll set it up with links to this wiki and encourage people to log their expeditions in the normal way. It might be possible to add more bells and whistles like "Share my Expedition on Facebook" but that's for the future.[[User:Sourcerer|Sourcerer]] ([[User talk:Sourcerer|talk]]) 10:27, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
+:While not on Facebook, I recognize it has some popularity. It would be good if the account would be "returned" to a new maintainer if Sourcerer for example loses the will to entertain it. I'm all for the page. (And a major overhaul of the webpage, which I always found a bit unattractive and "unergonomical".) [[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]]) 17:25, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
+==Translation==
+If you don't mind, I added a [[Geohashing:Community_Portal#Translation|translation]] of the references pages :) Maybe it helps luring people into the community --[[User:SastRe.O|SastRe.O]] ([[User talk:SastRe.O|talk]]) 21:18, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
+==February 2020==
+Figured new and old TODOs should be separate since some of the technical context is different. [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 00:54, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
+Hi all, is this the right place to report errors? I wasn't sure. Only I found one: Visiting the '''Discussion''' tab on the [https://geohashing.site/geohashing/Couch_Potato_Geohash Couch Potato Geohash achievment page] provokes the following MediaWiki internal error: Original exception: [05e3067451213af905582a3d] 2020-02-26 17:17:56: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError" -- [[User:Macronencer|Macronencer]] ([[User talk:Macronencer|talk]]) 17:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
+:There was a &lt;math>-Tag on the page, the new Wiki seems to be unable to deal with those, so I removed it. Should work now. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 19:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
+::Thanks. I really must get around to looking at those &lt;math&gt; tag issues. -[[User:DanQ|DanQ]] ([[User talk:DanQ|talk]])
+::Yes, thanks [[User:Fippe|Fippe]]! [[User:DanQ|DanQ]], do you happen to know if there are any problems with email sending from the site? I can't get a confirmation email at the moment so I'm unable to get notifications. --[[User:Macronencer|Macronencer]] ([[User talk:Macronencer|talk]])
+::I am having same issue, but initially thought it was a problem on my email provider's side. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 11:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
+My apologies... I think I might have screwed up the gallery on the main page. To be honest, I can't fathom how it's supposed to work. I see there's a bot that does something, but I don't know what I need to do manually, and which bits get picked up for me. I made an expedition report for 2020-02-29 51 -1 and clicked "Add" to add it... but then, despite my using the same format as the other things on there, there's now a red link and I can't see why. What have I missed? --[[User:Macronencer|Macronencer]] ([[User talk:Macronencer|talk]]) 14:03, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
+:Just a small typo: The link was going to "2020-'''20'''-29 51 -1", not "2020-'''02'''-29 51 -1". It is fixed now. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]])
+::D'oh! Sorry. So I invented a new calendar there. Thanks for fixing it! --[[User:Macronencer|Macronencer]] ([[User talk:Macronencer|talk]])
+== Is there anything wrong with the Coordinates Reached category? ==
+...or am I being dumb? Please could someone take a look at [[2020-03-13 51 1]] as I can't understand why it doesn't show the Coordinates reached category at the bottom of the screen. If there's a typo somewhere, I can't see it at the moment! Thanks. --[[User:Macronencer|Macronencer]] ([[User talk:Macronencer|talk]]) 18:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
+:It was an unclosed HTML comment. Fixed. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 19:43, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
+::Thank you! I can't believe I missed that. I need more sleep (or perhaps more coffee?) :-\ --[[User:Macronencer|Macronencer]] ([[User talk:Macronencer|talk]]) 20:15, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
+== Get rid of the xkcd Saturday meetup thing? ==
+When was the last time anyone randomly met another geohasher at 4pm on a Saturday? Maybe it is time to update the front page of the wiki to reflect the current state of geohashing? [[User:Stevage|Stevage]] ([[User talk:Stevage|talk]]) 01:00, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
+: It was quite recently actually, [[2020-05-23 52 9]]. [[User:JoDaEmPa|JoDaEmPa]] and I had never met before, and the only reason we met was both of us being there on a Saturday at 16:00. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 07:03, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
+:: For me it also was quite recently, with GeorgDerReisende, but the meetup time was more of a convenient guideline. I always thought the meetup is overrated, starting with it referring to one seventh of the week. To have larger meetups sometime, I would keep it, but since noone views this as mandatory anyway, somehow down-priorize it on the webpage. [[User:Rincewind|Rincewind]] ([[User talk:Rincewind|talk]]) 12:17, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
+::: Yeah, as far as I know the only source for it is the mouseover text of the original comic, which I don't think was meant to be a mandate, just a suggestion. [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 04:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
+== Working with the mediawiki API ==
+If this isn't the right place to ask this - apologies!
+I've been trying to automate some of the more tedious parts of reporting an expedition, in particular uploading photos and creating the expedition page if it doesn't exist. But I'm running into some problems with the mediawiki API (geohashing.site/api.php).
+In particular, I am having trouble posting to the `upload` action, (i.e. `action=upload`) - I have retrieved a CSRF token from `action=tokens` but if I include it as a query parameter I get an error ("The following parameter was found in the query string, but must be in the POST body: token."), but if I include it as part of the multipart/form-data post body it doesn't seem to find it ("The "token" parameter must be set.").
+Can anyone help me with this please? [https://gist.github.com/mdixon4/3701a38b0ba9b0c5f1087de2f20afe2d Here's a link to a gist - I'm using javascript via Deno for this proof-of-concept.] [[User:Mdixon4|Mdixon4]] ([[User talk:Mdixon4|talk]])
+:I can't answer your question directly, but I can tell you how I usually upload photos. I use the [[mw:Manual:Pywikibot|Pywikibot]] script [[mw:Manual:Pywikibot/upload.py|upload.py]]. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 07:09, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
+== All of this is way too much tedious work for me ==
+''(Text copied and slightly modified from [[Talk:Expedition#All_of_this_is_way_too_much_tedious_work_for_me|Talk:Expedition]] because no one replies there)''
+I really enjoy the concept of geohashing, but after every expedition, I feel annoyed and sandbagged to do all of that expedition-page-creating! Following all of the instructions on the [[Expedition]] page is really time-consuming and exhausting! I probably spend MORE TIME creating the expedition page (including ordering and uploading photos and tracklog) than the expedition itself took! Also, it stresses me out like crazy (because I DON’T HAVE THE TIME for it!) and therefore hampers my fun of geohashing as a whole!
+To have a better understanding why it’s too much for me, here’s a list of everything I have to do after each expedition:
+    ❗ prepare media files
+        ❗ transfer images and tracklog(s) from phone:
+            => photos, OruxMaps photos, OruxMaps screenshot(s), GPX tracklog(s)
+            => everything should be in the “Geohashing” folder
+        ❗ download my friend’s photos if he participated
+        ❗ organize everything and separate non-public images from the rest
+    ❗ create and finish expedition report
+        ❗ title image
+        ❗ Location
+        ❗ Participants
+        ❗ Plans
+        ❗ Expedition
+        ❗ Tracklog
+            ❗ upload tracklog to the wiki
+            ❗ write short text about the tracklog
+        ❗ Gallery
+            ❗ upload images to the wiki
+            ❗ sort them in the right order
+            ❗ add categories to images (e. g. Grins)
+            ❗ add witty captions
+        ❗ Achievements
+            ❗ improve OpenStreetMap near the geohash
+            ❗ upload GPX tracklog to OpenStreetMap if it’s good quality
+            ❗ add OpenStreetMap achievement
+            ❗ add other achievements
+            ❗ add images to all achievements
+        ❗ Categories – update when finished!
+    ❗ update user page
+    ❗ update graticule page
+    ❗ add expedition report to Main Page
+Do you have ANY solutions?? It feels like I need to hire someone to create the pages for me to get my time back for other activities (including my duties)! — [[User:Green guy!|Green guy!]] ([[User talk:Green guy!|talk]]) 12:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
+:Whilst I quite enjoy the creation of the expedition report and like taking my time adding things and changing progress statistics, I can understand your frustration at how long of a process it can be. I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done on the wiki side of things regarding your media preparation as that all happens independently of the website, but there may be solutions to the rest of your issue. For example, it may be possible to create a template to help automate the process if you plan for your reports to all follow the same formatting. I'm not very well informed on this side of things, but some users such as [[User:Stevage|Stevage]] may be able to help as I believe they have already created their own templates. I also don't think we would be able to help at all with the OpenStreetMap side of things as that is a different site, but there may be a solution for that externally. I will mention that there is no pressure to create detailed reports for each expedition if you are not enjoying doing so. A lot of people don't even report their expeditions at all, but if you'd prefer to write a sentence or two describing the expedition that would not be criticised. The main goal is for your own enjoyment, so if you don't enjoy the report-writing, don't put too much effort into it. --[[User:KerrMcF|KerrMcF]] ([[User talk:KerrMcF|talk]]) 15:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
+:Some of the things you listed are optional: You don't have to do all that OSM stuff. Others can be automatized, like the list of expeditions on your graticule page(s) and your user page. If you would like that, I can set it up for you.
+:If you are an Android user, you can use [[Geohash Droid]], an app which makes it easier to post text and photos to the wiki. An iOS app is currently being developed by [[User:BrendanTWhite|BrendanTWhite]].
+:Regarding categories, some users just use [[:Category:New report]] and let other Geohashers figure out the right categories for them.
+:Plans, witty captions, image categories,  tracklogs, even achievements are optional. Don't add them if you dont like to. Tracklog descriptions don't feel necessary to me at all, a tracklog usually speaks for itself.
+:I used to have a phase where I would think "I would like to go to that Geohash, but I don't feel like writing tons of prose describing my adventure", and ended up not going. The solution: All that prose is optional. [[2022-04-05 52 10|This]] is a valid report. I hope you can find a level of detail that is comfortable for you. --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 15:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
+::Huge thanks to you and may God bless you for your help! — [[User:Green guy!|Green guy!]] ([[User talk:Green guy!|talk]]) 16:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
+== All of this is way too much tedious work for me, part 2 ==
+I well understand that many aspects of creating expedition pages are optional; however, I still feel forced to write an interesting report for every expedition due to my extreme perfectionism.
+In one aspect, I feel obligated to create an extensive gallery with witty captions because otherwise my perfectionism tells me I’m withholding parts of my expedition from the public. On the other hand, there’s the logical argument that the pictures have less value for strangers anyway as they’re especially tied to personal memories.
+Do you think it’s a valid decision to leave out the gallery completely, except for proof of reaching the coordinates or obtaining an achievement? Thanks for your help, again! — [[User:Green guy!|Green guy!]] ([[User talk:Green guy!|talk]]) 13:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
+:I thought I would comment because I '''am''' the public. Despite never having even ''attempted'' a geohash of my own, I think this is a fascinating hobby and I read the reports everyday (and now I read all the updated pages too).
+:It seems to me that each geohasher has their own voice and style, which is part of my enjoyment and adds to the feeling that you are accompanying them on their expeditions. I have enjoyed '''your''' reports, including the fact that you nearly always include a meal during your trips. I think that's good living! Since Fippe has replied to you here, I might add that I appreciate his terse but informative style, which seems to have evolved to deal with his own time issues, and might suggest to you how you might manage your own.
+:I understand perfectionism very well, and I get how it can become stifling, so I just wanted you to know that what you do is interesting and appreciated perhaps more widely than you may realise.
+:I think this is an activity where you can pretty much set your own rules and standards, and certainly not be judged by how much or how little you write or share. In other words, there are no rights or wrongs. I hope you can continue with your reports while also being kind to yourself. Best wishes. --- [[User:Grunesquallor|Grunesquallor]] ([[User talk:Grunesquallor|talk]]) 06:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
+----
+:If it helps you post, absolutely leave out whatever you want! It's far more important to explore the world than to tell us every detail of it.
+:
+:I've done expeditions (a couple of failures, one success) that I've not managed to write up at all. I've shot vloggy footage on expeditions which I've then never used. I've failed to find the energy to extract a tracklog from my GPS.
+:
+:Write as much or as little as you like!
+:
+:(But I agree, it'd be nice if it were easier.) - --[[User:DanQ|Dan Q]] ([[User talk:DanQ|talk]]) 08:49, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
+----
+:Here is an approach that works for me: I already know what pictures I will take in advance. One of my feet standing on the coordinates, one of the site of the Geohash, a screenshot for proof, and a panorama of the surroundings. My captions usually aren't very witty either.
+:Similarly, my reports usually are quote formulaic. How did I get there, how did I zero in on the coordinates, how did I return home.
+:Plenty of things have happened during my expeditions that did not make it into any report because I did not feel like adding it, and that is okay. I am not obligated to share everything about my expeditions with the public, and neither are you.
+:I think it is better to write brief report than to write no report at all. Few pictures are better than no pictures at all.
+:You can be as brief as you want and include as few pictures as you want, we are not going to judge you! :-) --[[User:Fippe|Fippe]] ([[User talk:Fippe|talk]]) 20:16, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page"

Latest revision as of 20:16, 8 July 2024

Contents

Golobal Hash Distribution

What Three Wordle

HTTPS

Proposed changes to Algorithm

Tenth Anniversary Anti-Discrimination Algorithm Upgrade

The McKay proposal

Graticules without weekday geohashes

Older Topics

Organization / automation questions

Google Maps API

Automated Transclusion Implemented

re-organise the frontpage

problem with iPhone version

Degrees of Separation

Geohashing around the world

Map links

Main page restructure

My Vision of the Future

I'm so confused...

New User Comments

Coordinate History

IRC Chat

Proposed update to 1st sentences.

Juventas' Server Configuration Wishlist

Offer of hosting

libwww-perl/5.828

removing "Community portal" inclusion.

Can we provide a landing place for people who have seen a marker in the wild?

Geo Hashing talk:Community Portal

Main page image URL

Translation in French

Hashpoint from 0001 to 0930

Login CAPTCHA issues

HTTPS

Can we make the "Discussion" button more visible?

machine parseable coordinate reference, datepages

Ambassador template

Categorization question

Problem with Google Maps lookup/link, 2010-11-19

New user spam

Problems with peeron map?

Abortive responses from server?

Flags represent countries, not languages

This should go without saying, but...

Please, allow bigger files (at least 2MB)

Is it possible to extend mapimg tag to include also globalhash location?

Randomness and The Algorithm

Re: What is This?

New feature: Recent non-expeditions

Links to carabiner.peeron.com broken

Standard graticule page format?

Navigation bar "broken"? Tools list is missing

Erasing a Page or an uploaded photo

further Translation

Most Active Geohashers

Graticule Twinning

Allow KML file uploads

what3words web and phone apps

Closest consecutive geohashes?

Coordinate computation mismatch

Google Maps API

Correct Coordinates?

Facebook Page?

Translation

February 2020

Is there anything wrong with the Coordinates Reached category?

Get rid of the xkcd Saturday meetup thing?

Working with the mediawiki API

All of this is way too much tedious work for me

All of this is way too much tedious work for me, part 2